The Renegade Laces up her boots and…

Posted: December 15, 2010 in "Those People", Humans, WTF???

prepares to step right in it, both feet.

AKA:  Teacher is against bullying and intolerance, so he forces a female student to remove a part of her clothing and tells a Catholic Student to Get Out of his classroom…how…tolerant.

Okay then.  Now, sure as shit bullying is an issue in schools, in life, in the greater human condition.  And yep, both that dang hick flag and being Catholic are contraversal things these days…way more so than even being gay in some circles.  And true enough, gays get bullied in life and in school, and there is nothing wrong with discussion about intolerance and how it is wrong to make people feel uncomfortable for being gay…yet when one is attempting to foster greater understanding and tolerance and making folk feel comfortable with themselves – how does it make sense to tell a girl to remove an item in a classroom full of students and then eject another from said class for his relgious beliefs?

To me, it doesn’t.  I seriously wonder if a Muslim or Hindu or Amish student had said “I don’t support homosexuality because of my religion” if his ass woulda got tossed out of class, or if a discussion that was TRULY conducive to tolerance of all people and their various beliefs might have been engaged in?  I wonder if a male student wearing a buckle with the flag of any one of the numerous Southern States which, oh, look a lot like that dang hick flag would have been told to take it off, or if a skate rat punk kid sporting something with the Iron Cross, ala, oh, West Coast Choppers, would’ve been told to take it off?  Or if a kid in a Washington Redskins or Cleveland Indians jersey woulda been told to take it off….or if maybe an actually tolerant debate of the implications of those images might have been had?    I also sorta wonder in what realm of earth are we when teachers and faculty assume they can tell students what bumper stickers they can and cannot have on their personal vehicles in the parking lot? I also sorta wonder what sort of boneheaded excuses for teachers we have when students who are asking questions and wanting answers- on a day when a topic of note is supposed to be tolerance and bullying- can get fucking ejected from a class room for daring to ask and question….I mean Jesus Christ, how dare a kid ever ask something that might be controversal in an environment which is supposed to be intellectually stimulating and a place in which to learn?

And yep, you know what?  I get that a whole lotta people do not like Catholics, or any other religion that does not condone homosexuality.  And I sure enough get that a whole lot of people do not like the Confederate Battle Flag, I even get that why yes, many schools have dress codes for a reason!   But fucking tossing students out of class for questioning something seems pretty fucking intolerant to me.

I wonder if either of the students in question in this case felt awkward, bullied or less than tolerated?

  1. Now, I am a straight down the line “Zero Tolerance for Bigots” guy who would sooner kick the ass of anyone who bullies another person…but this is so way out of line.

    Punishing the actual bully is one thing. Punishing someone for merely disagreeing and embarrassing a female student for little or no reason?? Can you say “vounterproductive”??

    Not to mention that it gives a real hammer to those who legitimately back such bigotry as martyrs.

    I hate the Stars and Bars like any other Black man…but their right of free speech is a price I’m willing to pay to insure my right to be a smack-talking pro-sex Indy Left democratic socialist. What they say doesn’t affect me nearly as much as what they DO.


  2. Of course, I meant “counterproductive”. Spell check before you post, ‘Dog.


  3. dead_vladimir says:

    While it is not in his statement, numerous reports from the students seem to all agre ont he fact he told the student “well your catholic then you belong in catholic school not public”

    that’s not discrimanation right there

    It’s funny, people like this teacher aren’t any less bigoted or intolerant than the people they rail against.

  4. Hugo says:

    My goodness, wildly inappropriate to throw them out of class. And wildly inappropriate to ask a student to remove an article of clothing. Teacher missed a golden educational opportunity, and is now positing himself as the victim and the arbiter of all that is socially just.

    Same BS as when a teacher tells a female student to wear more clothes because she’s a distraction. An utter failure to grasp what it means to create tolerance in the classroom. I’ve taught high school, community college, and university classes for 20 years, and I’ve seen almost everything. He deserved his disciplining.

    • Ren says:

      What’s killing me on this one is how some people are talking about what a hero he is. Yes he promoted tolerance for gay students but at the price of others whom it is his duty to educate.

      • dead_vladimir says:

        well some are more “equal” than others

        you knew that didn’t you?

        • Ren says:

          Of course

          • dead_vladimir says:

            if you read all his statements, he did not want the student back in his class ever, because he was so upset that the student’s behavior put fear in others… but then decided he might allow it if the kid agreed to a talk with him about the error of his thoughts -and he didn’t want to involve the kid’s parent which is odd I think
            such bs

  5. dead_vladimir says:

    here’s the scary thing:
    “Sandra Moore and Aaron Moran then decided to turn this issue into something larger than the teachable moment that it was.”

    when ever someone mentions the word teachable moment, I shiver.

  6. Gaina says:

    The overriding feeling for me here is that person is a bad teacher for not taking the opportunity to engage all of the students in respectful debate and critical thinking (personally I’d make Critical Thinking a compulsory subject).

    Also, did it ever occur to this teacher that the young lady wearing the belt buckle wasn’t aware of the negative connotations? She may well have been perfectly aware of them but let’s be honest? How many of us in our younger years adopted a certain aesthetic knowing it would piss *somebody* off? I know I did! haha (though my choices could never be misconstrued as condoning any kind of prejudice). And if she wasn’t aware then it was a perfect opportunity to credit her with the intelligence to examine the symbolism of the buckle and decide if that was the message she really wanted to convey about herself.

    If schools don’t tackle difference and teach the students how to negotiate differences in a respectful manner, how do they expect students to act like reasonable adults when the education system spits them out into the real world!?

    • Ren says:

      And oddly enough that particular symbol is one that has very different conotations to various groups of people…and is still often a huge subject of debate amid many. Maybe I’ll do a post about it later.

      • Gaina says:

        Yes, and the Buddhist Swastika is a perfect example of that. I didn’t know until recently it has been used by both Buddhists and Hindus for over 2000 years as symbol of prosperity and good fortune. This website explains it’s history and makes a good point, by asking why people who display it in it’s original positive context should be discouraged from doing so because of a moment in history where it was used negatively?

        Definitely a big subject with plenty of nuances to consider. I look forward to your next post on the subject, if you decide to pursue it 🙂

        • Gaina:

          Isn’t there a slight variation between the Buddhist and Nazi Swastikas, though.

          Isn’t the Buddhist one slanted clockwise, while the Nazi one counterclockwise?? And, wasn’t that done deliberately by Hitler to mock the earlier symbol??


          • Gaina says:

            Hmm…I’m just looking at photos of various swastika’s now Anthony and both the Hindu and Buddhist symbols seem to go both ways. I know the use of it by Hitler was a deliberate inversion of it’s original symbolism but I couldn’t comment on the direction of the symbol with any certainty….

          • I couldn’t comment on the Buddhist symbol, but the Hindu symbol is definitely exactly the same, which really threw me when I saw photographs of a Hindu wedding with the symbol displayed prominently and many times – even though I had already known of its origins in that faith. But the relevant point to the OP about that is, it was my issues with the symbol and not anything wrong with the Hindu use of it, and so it was on me to deal with it (and not say “OMG symbol of hate STOP IT!”)

  7. Lord Sodit says:

    Do you really support people who believe any sex/race/religion except my own is literally ‘not worth a fuck’? Do you really support traditional sexist ‘apartheit” expressed as tradition that you can be polite to the other sex (and ‘race’)but keep them at a distance because only your own matters to you as people to respect as friends?

    You can fuck or you can respect as friends, or you can use as a vibrator – but you must never give a shit to actually like or respect as friends. Feminist fillth make their demand to feel raped so they can avoid meeting men as equals clear, and their traditional contempt of women who don’t believe themslelves inferior to the menfeminists demand as rapists, equaly clear.

    But it’s like arguing with Stalinists and Naxis – except for the mouthy minority inolved, everybody else is too free from their hang-ups to even notice they exist.

    • Ren says: THIS POST HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH FUCKING FEMINISM. NOW either get with the fucking program stay on fucking topic or get the Fuck OFF MY BLOG!

    • this the only trick that you have??

      This is about bullying and the proper way of teaching tolerance in classes. I don’t believe that feminism has a damn thing to do with it.

      I’ll make it a bit less graphic than Ren: stay on topic, or move on. But, if you still want to feel Ren’s boots up your ass, Sodit…well, I won’t stop ‘ya.


    • dead_vladimir says:

      I’ve become convinced Lord Sodit is actually a bot written by some college kid to auto troll

      it spews out a combination of sentences that have no contextual meaning

  8. Mr.Grim says:

    I am very confused on what point you were trying to make, you grammar and your facts backing up what ever point you were trying to make with your missive, were well all over the place. Maybe if you did not type naked with a bowl of jello in your hand, or maybe if you watched more porn, or if your parents did not inbreed you might be alittle more calmer in your typing and you might be able to stay on the topic or atleast one topic.
    Anyone who knows me will tell you that I am no intellectual, more like the guy who will drag you out back and kick the shit out of you kinda guy. But I’ll do my best to answer your questions, since you tried so hard to right them.
    1. No
    The other comments were bullbaiting so they don’t deserve an answer. IF you have more questions I will be happy to answer them.
    I must apologize about Jello comment, You seem more llike a pudding guy.


  9. Mr.Grim says:

    Sorry….. on the topic at hand. Teaching should be one of the highest paid jobs , but the school need to be more selective with who they employ.


  10. Lord Sodit sounds like the regulars at Feminist Critics.

    And what Anthony said!

  11. Roy Kay says:

    Buried at the time of this post, but wanted to come back to it.

    I’m rather intensely anti-RCC as an institution and a theology, but there are differences among institutions, theologies and people. Freedom of expression is a right of all people and in any free civil society, you will hear any number of conflicting opinions and need to keep in mind that other people’s freedom is as important as your own. Ironically, his Authoritarianism derives from the theology and philosophy of Augustine.

    Why is this guy even teaching if he feels constrained to SUPPRESS opinion? That’s counter to the whole idea of education. Likewise, part of the deal that gave rise to the First Amendment was the recognition that making government (and this IS a public school, right?) a venue for religious war is an invitation to religious tyranny; and THAT development would necessitate rebellion – rather the opposite of providing for the common defense and ensuring (sufficient) domestic tranquility.

    On a human level, he failed to accord the student the same humanity he ascribes to himself and those he is under the impression that he is protecting. Teachers, at least when I was growing up, understand that opinions they express, should be couched in terms of personal perspective and encourage students to critically examine all perspectives – i.e. learn to think. He failed to even consider the possibility that the student could think critically – most likely because the teacher wasn’t all that good at critical thinking himself.

  12. DebSens says:

    Agreed! Neither the left side or the right side can claim to be to beacon of tolernece…rather they are more or less tolerant of certain things! Me…..I like the Buddhist approarch which is the middle ground!

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