Fair is Fair, Right? Right?

Posted: November 28, 2011 in Politics, WTF???

Or no, because well, yer Right…

Check this out.  Now granted, personally I am neither an Occupy Type or a Tea Partier, but Come On….some shit just ain’t fair now is it???  Should not BOTH groups get equal treatment?  I would THINK SO!

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Comments
  1. dead_vladimir says:

    well in the City of Richmond’s defense, not like the OWS people would pay a tax bill anyway 😛

  2. Well, that’s actually a good point, the Occupation isn’t an official group, legally speaking. They haven’t registered with a government body. Legally, there is nothing, no entity, to tax. The general assembly is just some people talking. Everyone who shows up is part of it, there is no membership list. Also, the Occupation didn’t _ask_ for all the stuff the City spent money on. And the Tea Party did. They held a rally. The Occupation is protesting. There is a difference. It was the Tea Party’s decision to register their group, have a conventional rally, play the Government’s game. This is what happens when you play their game. Which is why OWS is wise not to do it.

    • Ren says:

      the name, oh my the name…

      • All right, so I’m not exactly an disinterested, objective observer in all this.

        • Ren says:

          i feel that all people in such matters should be treated equally…you object to that? If not, then, well, hate it or not, the Tea Partiers have a legit complaint…esp if they pay taxes…which they do.

          • Equal matters should be treated equally. But the Tea Party and OWS, while they may both be filled with activists, are not the same thing. They have different goals, different types of goals, and approach them in different ways. One is practicing politics, and one is practicing civil disobedience. They are apples and oranges. The Tea Party may object that apples are being treated differently than oranges, but it was their decision to be apples. They had the option to be oranges.

            • Ren says:

              right, but in part it is their taxes, working folk who hate much of the same shit OWS hates, who are paying to clean UP after OWS…is that fair? I’d say no. Frankly, the idea of MY taxes going to pay for cops, clean up, porta potties and so on for people who DO NOT represent me pisses me right the fuck off.

              Oh sorry, is that offensive? Offensive to me my money being spent to take care of people who do not at all speak for me and feel entitled to well, just abuse the use of whatever little money I have.

              • Not at all. I would be very offended by the government spending my money on that. But it should be noted that in many cases OWS people have requested they they be able to bring in porta potties at their own expense, and were denied. They definitely didn’t request the police (especially the ones beating them.) They have also, in many cases, been prohibited from cleaning up. Those costs do not come from the OWS, they come the overreaction and oppression of the government. To blame the costs of the cops that beat and harass the OWS, on the OWS, is, well, victim blaming.

                • Ren says:

                  uh huh, like the baltimore OWS folk who told women not to report rape and sexual assault?

                  What Occupy event are you at, anyway? You know police are also being assaulted? Do you really think John Q Citizen WANTS you in the park in their neighborhood???

                  • I’m pissed off by the Baltimore thing. And of course its not just in Baltimore. Rape, physical assault, and other such crimes should not be dismissed, downplayed, excused, or anything like that. I know why they said not to report it, but they were wrong to do so.
                    But rapes happen. They happen because of the the kind of culture we have. They happen when people of this culture congregate together for an extended period of time. The rapists, and the culture that grows them, should be prosecuted and fought against vigorously. But that is a condemnation of the culture and the individual rapists, not the congregation. And it would nice if the cops were in a position to be trusted and turned to, rather than resisted and feared. It was the cops that became paramilitary forces, who brutalize who they’re supposed to help, who break the law with less fear of punishment than ‘civilians’, because they get away with it more often. It was the cops that broke the social contract.
                    I’m affiliated with Occupy Asheville, in Asheville, NC. I can’t make the meetings (helping out disabled relative, so I’m at home 24/7.) But yes, I’d say our occupation is fairly well received. John Q Citizen doesn’t exist. There is no average person, in much the same way that there is no average feminist. But according to a CBS News/New York Times poll conducted a month ago, more of John Q agrees with OWS (43%) than disagrees with OWS (27%). I have no idea what those percentages would be now, nor do I know what they would be next week. But from what I’ve heard, not many people have a problem with them being there.

  3. rootietoot says:

    I guess the message is make sure your mayor/governor/whomever is a child of the 60’s and all groovy and stuff with “civil disobedience” instead of…y’know…registering and making sure all the ducks are in a row before you have a public gathering. IT’S ALL ABOUT THE MESSAGE, MAN! and we all know tea partiers are a buncha blue collar rubes who are cloaking their racism in a fake sort of message about taxes or something…or is that the occupiers? wait…what? I’m confused.

    • The OWS is paying for their gatherings in blood, tears, and jail time. That’s the price you pay when you go that route. Money & bureaucracy is the price you pay when you go the Tea Party route. Which group has paid more?

      • Ren says:

        heh, you are on the wrong blog to be talkin about blood, tears and jail time…you DID see the subtitle right?

        • Are those forbidden subjects? Because people in the OWS are being bled, they are being tortured (it may not be literal waterboarding and bamboo under the fingernails, but a lot of what the cos subject them too counts towards the official definitions of torture), and they are going to jail, some on trumped up charges, some on unconstitutional charges. That is happening.

          • Ren says:

            I am sure it is, in fact, that would not surprise me in the least, it happens to ANYONE with strong political views, right left or in between…but if subjects are not forbidden…you been in jail, ever, for anything? I can ask if you can.

            I’m not even trying to be an ass (which is real hard for me, by nature, i am both an asshole and a hardass), and I do absolutely respect ANYONES right to free speech and protest, but the whole idea of claiming 99% when they are anything but, and the idea that they are getting special treatment, which I feel in this case they are, bothers me.

            • I was convicted of a minor felony and spent the night in jail, plus fines and community service. Being a white male helped in that, I’m sure (it probably also helped that the officer in charge of my case was arrested for statutory rape before my case came to court.) I’m not proud of what I did. It was nothing political, it was a moral failing on my part.
              While they are claiming to be fighting for the 99%, they are not (to my knowledge) claiming to represent them. The people at OWS are part of the 99%. They’re not big on representation.
              As for special treatment, if OWS started a voting drive, formed a PAC, ran candidates, and otherwise embraced the electoral process, then you would be right. If was the case, they should be treated the same as the Tea Party, go through the same hoops, pay the same fees, etc. But they’re not doing that. They are in fact, by and large, strenuously resisting involvement in the electoral process. This puts them in a different category than the Tea Party. Pundits may want to promote OWS as “The Tea Party of the Left”, but that’s just not true. Its a different best all together.

              • Ren says:

                except the same goals (some) and same oppositions (some). They DO actually have some goals in common….and in common with lots of other folks too, really. Hell, the Partiers have done voting drives too, that I know (hell, I am in VA).

                And yer not the only person who has been in jail, or worse, around here, but debts to society are paid in my book.

                • That’s the thing- Tea Partiers do voting drives, OWS doesn’t. There may be some overlap in ideology (some), but there is a vast gulf in methodology. Its the methodology, and the ideal of the methodology, that is the important thing. For the purposes of fees, permissions, and interacting with governments, that’s the difference.

                  • Ren says:

                    Okay, I can respect that then. Point is, you seem to be a “civil” protestor, which I got zero issue with. But….not all are like you, at all, in any way. Therein is my issue.

          • dead_vladimir says:

            they are also willfully disrupting other’s people lives, flouting numerous laws etc
            these things do not come without consequence. nor do they despite their claims represent 99% of what the population wants.
            Have their been some criminal actions by some police yes-but also have some protestors antagonized them etc sure-never a good idea to throw rocks at a cop and then claim your rights are being violated when they retaliate, in a lot of ways it seems the OWS people want it both ways -they want to protest and flout the rule of law but then be protected by it, or exempt from the consequences. As i said before, personally i think they are right that their is something wrong with the system but I don’t think what they are offering is a solution. In fact frankly I think they are a lot like the pigs in animal farm, they don’t want to end farming, they just want to be the farmers.

            • dead_vladimir says:

              and i don’t think anything they have suffered yet counts as torture.
              But thats my opinion and it is possible that things are happening the media has not made me aware of, but i have yet to hear about anyone dragged off to dark rooms by secret police and strapped to car batteries

            • Ren says:

              as i said in a earlier post…when things like this end good, then end in revolution, when they end bad, they end in Kent State, when they go really amok…Tiananmen Square…and I personally feel the OWS sorts are not ready for that, and while it would be bad and wrong, you poke and disturb people too much, even those you claim to speak for, sooner or later, they poke back…harder…

              https://theger.wordpress.com/2011/10/27/okay-fine-then-a-rant/

            • Two words: UC Davis (Well, two letters and a word, but you know what I mean.)
              Those students were disrupting people’s lives by sitting on the sidewalk. People could, and did, walk around them. People could step over them. The cops did step over them. Then they pepper-sprayed them. They pepper-sprayed peaceful, unresisting students. The cops told they were going to be pepper-sprayed, and they still sat there. That means the pepper-spray was useless getting them to move. The only reason it was used was because the cops wanted to punish the students, for defiance. They wanted to show dominion.
              They’re pepper-spraying 84 year old women.
              There are some cases where some of the people have attacked cops. There are some cases where people have provoked cops into overreacting (Overreacting, assault, and violating your oath are still wrong, no matter the provocation.) Those don’t make the many, many cases of unprovoked brutality okay.
              Orwellian pigs are a bit of a cipher- everyone sees a different group in them. But there are some in OWS who do want a revolution. If the government keeps reacting they way that have been reacting, they may get one.

              • Ren says:

                and what a giant mess that will be

              • dead_vladimir says:

                well that’s the downside to the way they do it – protest without a permit, heck it’s an occupation right? People are going to resist. The point of this link here, in Richmond, they ahven’t been subjected to that, instead they get the same treatment as people who follow the legal process, and the legal people are the ones who got stuck with a bill, and when they pointed out the hypocripsy on the point of local government, local government retaliated.

                • I’m not defending the government (that’s pretty much a running theme with me. If the middle name of my profile wasn’t ‘Occupy’, it would be ‘I’m not defending the government.’) But in regards to the OWS, who should have the City of Richmond billed?

                  • dead_vladimir says:

                    oh I am not saying they should of billed anyone; nor am I saying they should reimburse the tea party, but when the mayor is outside speaking to the crowd telling them he sympathizes with them, giving them preferrential treatment and access and another group does what is admittedly a publicity stunt to draw attention to his bias, should we accept the city (note a city not state) audit of the said group? That’s text book government intimidation from a democratic administration which is clearly aligning itself with one group and punishing dissenting voices. Frankly from a Federal level on down, I think the OWS movement is letting themselves be pawns of a democratic party machine the same way the communist chinese party used to whip up the students every few years.

                  • dead_vladimir says:

                    though here is a good question, does OWS truly feel it is free of all responsibilty for it’s actions as a movement; due to it’s diffuse leadership? Does that give them a carte blanche?

                  • rootietoot says:

                    The city should take up a collection from all the OWS people. Churches do it all the time to meet their expenses.

  4. Ren says:

    Johnny:

    Had to start a new thread….as a 5’2″ 100 pound woman, i would FEEL UNSAFE, unless Strapped, at an OWS event, more so than MOST places. That should say something. And I would trust cops more than civilians when it came to that…maybe because I am a cracker, but yeah,

    I look at it like this, many people I know are in debt up to their eyeballs, everything for them is shit, OWS and non OWS…some go right, some go left, some get up and work and do either or neither….

    but fair is fair.

  5. this cracked me the hell up

  6. I love it. Indians are .8% of the population so when they say fuck the 1% it makes me feel bad.

    The only brown people you see are in the trees, putting up christmas lights

    *just dies laughing*

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