Posted: November 23, 2011 in Humans

What, fuck it, I am on a tear here, don’t like it, ya can go away….

So, I was thinking, which is both good and bad for me and all, and after my last angry white girl post, I was pondering something….

What if all the folk who are pissed off and mad about it- who have been shit on, devalued, disinfrancised, fucked over, so on, put aside all their considerable differences (and there are a lot of them) and were like “Hey, douchebags, you fucked ALL of us, and we’re done…” and I don’t mean like settin’ up shop in some OWS tent city protestor kinda way, but in a “fuck you, I ain’t payin’ taxes I ain’t haulin’ yer garbage I ain’t doin’ shit all for YOU until you do for US for a change.  You wanna throw my ass in jail for not paying outlandish debt forced on me, fine.   You wanna take/outsource/pay me shit for my job, fine.  You wanna fuck with me, fine….I’ll fuck ya right back…” 

I had like this amazing vision of all the people who have been fucked; all colors, all genders, all kinds of people who’ve been screwed by rich folk saying “ive had it” , and well, it was kinda cool.  Very cool really.  I mean think on it…all those pissed off Americans of All Kinds who have been fucked saying “We’re done laying down” and actually standing up.  Hell, imagine what would happen if every person on the lower end of the class scale, all colors and such, oh, didn’t show up to work for a few days….WE’RE not grad students….we’re factory people, and in food service, we haul garbage and fix cars and work in stores and warehouses and oh, shit like that.  We’re secretaries and janitors and people NO ONE fucking notices until we’re not there.  The rich have the money here, its the lower classes who actually do ALL the hard work.  Heh, imagine executives with no coffee from their local shop, no clean floors and no one to take their damn calls…or haul their garbage, cart their kids to school, or do their dry cleaning.  Or, what if we all showed up in front of the White House some weekend.  Or decided hey, if you are gonna fuck us when we work legit jobs, we go not legit…hell, I bet I could rig up a still real easy.  Imagine if the whole lot of us said “nah, none of the political candidates you are offering us are gonna work- after all, they are all rich people who are bought and paid for, we want something NEW”.  What if we all decided to NOT pay taxes?  What if we said, sorry, we won’t buy your movies, your phones, your software, your games, your books, anything YOU make other than the food and clothes we NEED.  What if….

What if we were all pissed off enough to actually stand together- in the NUMBERS we WOULD have- to make the Money Listen.  Not by beating drums and screaming slogans, but by…dare I say…force.  Force of needed labor. Force of lost monies, force of political distrust and disinterest. Force of…numbers.

Damn.  Could be a helluva thing.  Imagine every pissed off and pissed on Black Person, White Person,  Native American Person, Hispanic Person, Asian Person, Male and Female Persons….hell ALL people who have been screwed, pullin THAT kinda shit, in NUMBERS…

Damn.  OWS would have NOTHING on that shit.

Hey, a hick can dream….

  1. dead_vladimir says:

    well unless you are a dead beat dad, we don’t have debtors prisons in the US ….
    though what the system does is once you slip up into the debt side of the coin is keep you there forever

    there’ a reason why they blow up the credit score agencies in fight club….

    part of the problem is its not just the rich people who are screwing the masses, its everyone with an agenda, its the political class its the entitled class, its the career class of government workers. Not only that, but the masses have some very different opinions on what they want for society, so it is hard for people to get together. Some people want full employment (even if they went to school for a degree that has no use in the job market), some people just want a level playing field for everyone but then don’t care if people fail as long as the game wasn’t rigged, some people want big social safety nets, some people want religous based culture, some people want free society socially where no one gets to implace arbitrary social mores on them, and realyl what most people wnat i for the trains to run on time and to have an xbox. So while mass movements do have power and can change things, unless there is a concrete goal everyone agrees on, you end up in chaos.

    In addition way more people are vested in the system than people realize. all those government workers state and federal, all good union types, their salaries are paid for by taxes, their pensions and benefits better than the average privat sector person, do you think they’d support a movement advocating zero taxes? Or what about as we see all the time with the elderly who are married to social security and medicare?
    It how the political class keeps everyone in line, they give a few classes prefrential treatment, and create blocs that are vested in the status quo

  2. Not only are they keeping you in debt, they’re hell fucking bent on killing you outright with it. More and more employers are checking credit scores. I was actually told when I applied at a place (and this was 4 years ago so it isn’t even a new thing) that if you have a bad credit score, you might steal money from the company.

    Let THAT shit sink in for a moment.

    Because my late husband had opened a credit card in my name (without my consent) and went on a spending spree, then didn’t pay the bill (and I didn’t know any of this til after he died) I was a single mom who was turned down for a job that would have guaranteed I didn’t slip into serious poverty.

    A revolt, on a massive scale is about the only thing that will get their attention. Sadly, I don’t see it happening. But I dream with you Ren.

    • dead_vladimir says:

      oh when i was younger i got hit by the bad credit score to keep me from a job

      it’s a bs tactic and it should be illegal

      the worst thing is once they get you on their bad files it is almost impossible to ever get off, even if you pay everything off. I have one credit card with a small limit, I got way back when i first was repairing my credit, and to this day it has a small limit-so I use it and pay it off in full every month, 5 years no late payments but Experian rates it as a bad account because i use too much of the revolving credit on it -never mind it is too low to do more than rent a car or grab two nights at a hotel etc.
      But if i cancel it, they’ll rate that as a negative as well.


      the system is definitely rigged, my problem with OWS is I don’t trust them to fix it

    • xena says:

      Yes, this. Precisely why I had to spend so much time sleeping on the sidewalk. But try to explain to any housed, employed person that you’re perfectly sane, drug and alcohol free, with no criminal record when you’ve been fucked into living like this. They call you a liar and drop a bunch of legal, but not quite criminal bullshit on you. And they do this because they get rope-a-doped into believing that their whopping $1000 annual tax bill is all your fault, and banishing you in some way will save them money and protect them from whatever incubi might be hovering around your bodily orifices. I now have 2 No Trespass orders on my ass for absolutely nothing. Somebody overheard the H-word in a discussion I had with someone who offered me a couch to crash on. They took their stereotypes to building management, and voila! I get harassed at every shelter, job, welfare office, and apartment I try to access.

      “Going John Galt?” It’s a pretty dream, in theory. But the walk-out would have to be simultaneous and massive for the strategy to work. Otherwise, the net result would be 20% to what? 50% of the labour force replaced by hungrier, cheaper scab labour, while the original “John Galts” would be forced to live off the grid like me. Ayn Rand’s little Siberian commune is a fantasy, too. The closest successful experiment of a similar political stripe (though left, not right libertarian) that I’ve seen was founded by the Rajneeshis, during the Reagan years. The key factor that led to the success of the movement was the amount of money and technical expertise that the Rajneeshis brought with them. The government squashed the movement by jailing Osho, the leader, for tax evasion. They deported him. The popular conspiracy theory is that the FBI also poisoned him. He died shortly after he reached India. And what do you think that group of free-loving doctors, engineers, psychologists, etc. did when the prospect of jail and murder crossed their gentle minds? They said “Ok, I’ll take that blue pill now”, tore down their camp, and went back to their comfy lives.

      That’s not to knock them. Those yuppies were pretty brave to attempt that in the first place. But ultimately, when people are confronted with death and torture, the vast majority of them will STFU and bow down to The Man, rather than die for their ideals. Precious few ever figure out how to hold hands and turn climbing out of their neck deep shit piles into a collective effort.

      • xena says:

        Those Trespass Orders AND my shit credit score got foisted on to me when the New Residential School witch hunters, our fucked Child Protection system, forced me to choose between keeping my subsidized housing, and watching them turn my disabled son into one of their psychosurgery experiments. All in the middle of my first year of university. Yeah, I was doing what was expected of a nearly-educated ‘savage’, or so I thought. I guess we’re not supposed to have more education than the social workers. So my immediate family, 4 human beings get to live between 10% and 40% of their potential. And 3 of the 4 have shitty odds of living to 50 years old. All because somebody’s bottom line is more important than human life.

        And yes, my Metis heritage is a few generations back. About as far back as my family history of being harassed by Child Protection workers stretches. The shit never gets erased.

    • Sorry, WTF??? This is a thing in the USA? Credit checks for a job? I’ve never even heard of it in Australia. I mean if you’re applying to be a serious executive or in a sensitive job I guess they do background checks on that stuff but I’ve never even been asked about credit rating for any of my call centre jobs.

      • rootietoot says:

        yes. Credit checks for a job.My husband had one. The reasoning is (in his position as executive/upper management) that if you can’t manage your own finances how are you supposed to be able to manage a corporation? Personally I think it’s none of their damn business, but I’m not the Boss of the Boss. Well ok I am, but not in *that* way.

        • xena says:

          Yes, David. Here in Canada too. Many employers also list vehicle ownership as a requirement, even if you’re applying for a retail or restaurant position where your car will be parked all day. Yet another way to screen out potential employees who don’t swallow Commodity Fettishism whole. Having no car does not necessarily mean a person is being punished for something. I’ve never had a license. Never. I hitchhike, walk, or take public transit everywhere.

          Checking potential employees’ credit scores after they’ve been robbed or widowed or battered adds injury to insult. How are good people who have been swindled or brought down by tragedy supposed to dig themselves out again when they’re branded like that?

          • dead_vladimir says:

            i think the car requirement is more so they know you can make it to work regularly -I don’t know how it is in Canada but outside of the major urban centers here in the US, public transport rarely runs at a work conveinant schedule and employers don’t want to hire someone who then can’t work the hours. Not sure inquiring about a car specifically is cool, but I do think employers have the right to ask you if you can reliably be present for the stated work hours, and as the person willing to pay for an employee, I think they do have the right to decide what they find acceptable in that category
            Luckily in the white collar sector with the increasing use of telepresence we might start seeing some radical changes in that sort of expectation

            • rootietoot says:

              When Terry interviews prospective employees, he asks about transportation. The mill where he works is out in the middle of NOWHERE…10 miles from the nearest town, and if someone can’t drive or reliably catch a ride, he has trouble considering employment. That said, there are many employees who carpool and several who own minivans and charge a small fee ($5 or so) to pick people up and take them. Since it’s strictly shift work, most people can work something out, and tardiness ends up being self regulating.

            • xena says:

              Sometimes that’s the case up here, dead_vladimir, but not always. I applied for work at about half a dozen fast food places a few years ago, when I was lucky enough to live 5 blocks away from a large shopping mall. They all asked for car owners, and I told them all that I lived within walking distance. One manager asked me when the DUI happened. I won’t rehash that conversation. I believe I’ve posted that rant here before. 2 others asked me if the application was for a friend. Dragging out their real reasons for discriminating was like pulling teeth. In a nutshell, they wanted students, but not young or irresponsible students. One said he was hiring overnight drive-thru help only. He didn’t think walking to work at that time was a good idea. That sounded like a really weak excuse to me. The others didn’t bother to explain their reasoning.

              Terry may be sincere, Rootie. But I get the impression that most of the potential employers I spoke with were just looking for a way to avoid hiring ex-criminals without actually asking for a criminal record check. Our discrimination laws are constantly changing. It’s probably easier just to ask for people with valid driver’s licenses than to risk getting dragged through a Human Rights tribunal for asking about a person’s criminal history.

              • rootietoot says:

                Xena, yes, there are many employers who do just that. Terry doesn’t ask about a valid driver’s license, only that the person has a dependable way to get there, and gives them options if they don’t have their own car. If he required them to transport themselves, or have a license,half his employees would be disqualified. Likewise with the criminal record (he hires quite a few ex-convicts). He actually has a meeting room set aside for parole officers to visit their parolees, because they’re there weekly.

  3. I also agree too that it’s going to take more than OWS shit to succeed. Sorry, but OWS people piss me off to no end. They just now figured out shit isn’t right? Where the fuck have they been living? Candy Land? Oh that’s right, they just didn’t notice or have to care until it started affecting them. And they’ll stop and be satisfied the hot second it gets better for them and them only. Sure hasn’t stopped them from calling people N*ggers and refusing to allow them to speak. Sure hasn’t stopped them from raping women and then having “special ways” for women to report rape that doesn’t hurt the movement. Sure hasn’t stopped the utter disrespect they’ve shown Indigenous people who tried to be allies, even though the very term occupy is a fucking slap in the face.

    If they’re the 99&, what the fuck are WE?

    Ren and I sure aren’t part of it. She’s a female sex worker (and by god, that means she’s consented to fuck them all right? And if not, why they have a way for her and I to report rape that doesn’t hurt THEM)and I’m a female half breed.

    We should call ourselves the UNpercent. Right before we burn it to the ground.

  4. With people like that, you’re never an ex.

  5. xena says:

    Since I’m too busy putting out other fires, all I can really say about the OWS protests up here is that yes, they’re probably doomed and pointless. But from what I’ve seen so far, nobody’s done any lawn-pissing or raping, and the faces in the photos seem to represent a decent ethnic mix.

    And the Occupation at my elitist frathole of a university was overrun with cops. If those shits hate it, I’m all the more inclined to give myself a chance to like it.

  6. I’ve been involved at home helping out with Occupy Brisbane’s (Australia) online stuff…there’s a lot of ignorance about oppression, that’s for sure. I understand there’s been a fair bit of hypocrisy around enforcing anti-violence decisions, but some real struggle around it too.

    I feel sad when I hear people there earnestly talk about peaceful change. I feel in my guts that any serious change to the system is going to look more like what Ren’s talking about than a peaceful transformation to a better world.

    However by taking part at least I have a chance to find a few more people willing to read this blog. One of the biggest mistakes of the mishmash called “progressives” is their refusal to even discuss the idea that a society based on violence won’t go away nicely just because you ask it to. [citation: The Sixties]

    It’s like so many people who think they are left-wing decided that because this violent system is immoral, all kinds of violence are immoral no matter what. That means even thinking about a mass rising is out of the question because people might get violent! It’s like we mentally declawed ourselves.

    So I hope a few people have their minds blown a bit by the time they get to this comment.

  7. rootietoot says:

    I would really love to see peaceful change, an evolution of sorts. But my extreme lefty very mellow-peaceful-as-a-sofa-pillow son pointed out one day that the only real changes that have ever happened were bloody. Arab Spring? bloody. American Revolution? Bloody. “Mom, even the Puritans coming to the US was bloody,just ask the Indians.” He said the only way stuff is REALLY going to change is if a whole bunch of people make a whole bunch of other people start to bleed, and no one really wants that, so things are very unlikely to change very much at all.

  8. D. says:

    I’m going to say a dirty word. Americans are phobic about this word, and I’m not all that comfortable with it myself. There are flaws behind this word, and bad history, and more utopianism than is digestible in the 21st Century.

    (Disclaimer: Everything human is flawed.)

    The word is “socialism.”

    I suspect if one takes the bare bones, the very rock bottom of things that are true, and builds on that from an actual working-class perspective (Marx was not working-class) without the inter-class jeering that some on the “left” have indulged in over the last century and a half and without the assumption that we will all want the same thing (which seems to be one of those human failings like believing difference = inferiority), it might be possible to build a humane system.

    What if we were all pissed off enough to actually stand together- in the NUMBERS we WOULD have- to make the Money Listen. Not by beating drums and screaming slogans, but by…dare I say…force. Force of needed labor. Force of lost monies, force of political distrust and disinterest. Force of…numbers.

    That’s called a General Strike. General Strikes have actually happened in this country. They’re a bit difficult to pull off.

    Reinvention of the wheel is not necessary. What probably does need to happen is the rebranding of “socialism” so that the first thing that comes to mind is something other than “failed system,” “Castro,” “Stalin,” “gulags,” “bleakness,” or “East Germany.” I don’t understand the phobia Americans have about socialism (dating from the 19th century, even before the disasters of the Russian “experiment”), but there’s nothing that totally terrifies the elites quite like it, and maybe that might be a point in its favor.

    (Because, like pure Christianity, it’s too difficult for people and demands angels. We’re not angels. Socialism really needs to be tempered down for humans and made compatible with capitalism, and capitalism needs ethics and morals and constraints. Pure Christianity is its own problem.)

    (Daisy, of course. We will never agree on guns; otherwise I like the way you think.)

    • dead_vladimir says:

      the problem with socialism is not that it removes the elties from the system , it just creates a new class of elite, the government bureacrat-it’s just changing one master for another, and worse this one already had a lot of power over you to begin with

      secondly, the US is built as the land of opportunity (note: not the land of guaranteed success, just opportunity)

      what happens when the socialist government decides it needs more steam fitters than liberal arts majors; they make you become one
      good or ill as our current system is, rigged as it is, you still have a shot to pursue your dreams

      In socialism the good of the state overwhelms the good of the individual, and a lot of us don’t find that to be a good thing

      • D. says:

        Well, that’s not the only problem…

        It’s possible to have both socialism and opportunity, although it would require tweaking both sets of definitions. Back when the US government decided it needed more scientists, it threw more money and resources at the sciences, at the colleges and universities to produce scientists and researchers and engineers, at elementary school mathematics and science. The current, capitalist government has already decided what it needed; liberal arts majors have really never been beloved by the powers that be, unless you mean political science liberal arts majors. (Or if you can figure out a defense application for poetry.)

        Has anyone had a look at the Swedish system?

        • dead_vladimir says:

          I don’t know if that’s exactly true…after all you can get financial aid and government guaranteed loans for any course of study (which i think is part of why education costs so much, the schools can charge whatever they want because everyone will get a loan to pay for it, and the banks will loan ridiculous sums to people pursuing career paths with no real hope of paying it back, because at the end of the day they know they will get paid off even if its by the government); now if plans like Rubio’s in florida start getting approved where the state aid is only going to go to go to people pursuing fields, that is closer, but that is not even socialism, no one is saying you can’t pursue what you want, they are just saying they are only willing to invest in what they feel is necessary. The opportunity and freedom to do what you want would still be there
          (sorry opportunity does not equal government aid). Of course these plans may long term reduce some of the available options as less free money =less students = universities investing less in these programs, which is a mixed blessing, as these will become the fields of the wealthy; and while i feel encouraging people in the lower economic strata to purse careers with better economic potential is a good thing, I don’t like the idea of one class monopolizing classical knowledge-though the solution for that is an overhaul of our educational system and making sure every program carries a fundamental base of such knowledge

          on the other hand I do think we can just dispense with poli sci completely ; P

          • D. says:

            Ah. Because everyone now has to get a large loan. See, there used to be grants for pursuing education (Pell Grants) available to people below a certain income level (I myself missed the cut). There used to be low-cost loans. There are still scholarships, if one can find out about them, but one has to find out about them. Your suggested mechanism for rising tuition costs may also be what sent medical costs through the roof. And it’s totally unnecessary. It chokes off opportunity by throwing barriers and hurdles in the way. (I should explain here that the college I can talk about had a preponderance of older students, many of whom were working two jobs, many of whom were foreign-born or from poor families, most of whom were rocking grants or loans. There was a vibrant student life, but a lot of the time most students were too exhausted to take part in it. Some students were almost too exhausted for their classes. Now, I think that most students were also proud of the ingenuity they displayed once they’d graduated, but I also think they would have welcomed less pressure. It’s not much of an opportunity when one has to drop out mid-semester if one of one’s jobs goes poof.)

            One of the reasons what we call socialism needs to be rebuilt from the ground up is to take into account the less savory human characteristics around money, which capitalism in the wild tends to pander to. Opportunity and the means to take advantage of it are crucial.

            (I learned everything I needed to know about poli sci from the ’60s and ’70s.)

            • dead_vladimir says:

              but you see that is a socialistic program-government guaranteed loans distorting the market- if loans were not guaranteed, if the government was not underwriting everything,t he price of education would have to come down to be competive

              • D. says:

                So it’s the guaranteedness of the loans and not the governmentness that’s the problem? So the FDIC must be the problem with all these banks…don’t think so.

                As Ren said below, there are a few good ideas in socialism and frankly, what deregulation seems to do is bring out the jackals. I don’t trust jackals. I think jackals throttle opportunity and destroy the means to take advantage of it.

                And in every market deregulation, the prices come down briefly and then they shoot back up.

                • dead_vladimir says:

                  actually its not the FDIC that is the problem (that is actually a good government program, because its not rewarding the banks for risky behavior it fgorces the banks to pay into a fund to protect us from thier risky behavior) it is the fact that the government has established a pattern of too big to fail. If the governemt would let institutions fail, and let people suffer the consequences, people would be more cautious in how they invest and what institutions they give their money to, wall street is a giant casino, and the investment banks are like the house, everyone loses but them if you play long enough-the financial sector went from people buying into companies for dividends and long term investments to everyone looking for a quick buck, and not just the super rich, people who penny trade, people who nmanage their 401ks (which just combine a lot of small people so they can have the same effect as a large investor etc)
                  I am not anti all government regulation-for example enviormental protections, the FDA (and that one might cost me my conservative card etc) are areas where it should be active in. It’s social engineering it sucks at, if one looks at the history; and government bureacracies are never invested in solving a problem, in fact for government employees to keep thier jobs and get budgets, problems must grow. Back in the 1980s they did a study and realized they could give every person below the poverty line a check to put them over it at less than half the cost the government spends on the so called war on poverty each year.The argument agaisnt that was always well they won’t know what to do with it, or we are jsut enabling them, which is what the current system does now.

                  ANd yes guaranteed loans are a bad thing. I saw one OWS protestor complaining about how he and his wife can’t afford two new cars and a house because he only makes 30k (he was in advertising) and she has 150k in student loans from NYU and couldn’t find herself a job. Her field Gender and Sexuality studies, and i have to wonder, what job is there in that field that justifies 150k in loans? And with that sort of situation, my sympathy for the percent of OWS people who mirror that is zero.

                  Is there something wrong with our financial system? Yes. Does it keep a good number of people down? yes. Is it rigged? yes and we need to fix that, but it’s not people with crushing student loan debt, its the poor people who are discovering you need a atm card for everything these days, and the banks that now that we are all captive consumers that are putting on a charge for everything, while losing our money. It used to be the banks borrowed the depositors money so they had to give interest and be responsible, now you can not survive without a bank account so they don’t care, they can screw us over and what can you do? Can’t get a lease without one, can’t cash a check unless you have an account at the bank so you either open one there or have to have one to deposit it into-and t hat is bullshit because checks are bearer instruments, the bank is stating this check is redeemable for x currency and now they won’t redeem them (they cite fraud but really it’s to enforce everyone being part of the system).

                  But we created this idea everyone needed a college education. If we want the government in education, it should be too generate skills that are needed, and that will provide for people. We should pay for engineering degrees, fund vocational schools to teach cnc programming etc.
                  And I am not against government grants for the lower economic tier, not at all, that is a long term investment that benefits everyone-but the one truth is government money always deforms costs-they overpay and don’t care since they can judt tax/borrow/etc more

                  In a free market, if college costs were too high schools would be forced to lower it; these days they don’t, they raise them, and banks loan money-on bad investments because just like the bail out or the guys behind the sub prime crisis who still got their bonuses, their paydays are guaranteed no matter what.

                  We are making the same mistakes the Athenian Democracy made, that the Roman Republic made, and yet we all expect this to turn out different somehow.

                  • Ren says:

                    Nod Nod. As one of those people who bought into the Everyone Needs a Degree to a get a decent job shit, and needs loans to do it…ayep. I woulda been better off doing some sort of vocational training (which hey, I excelled in shop class and such) because sure enough, degrees later, I dont have too many marketable skills. Granted, I NEVER woulda made it as an engineer (way too much math, which I am just not good at) and probably would not have done well with computer tech as my main gig- but there ARE other fields…and sure enough, folk will pick someone who has solid basic office procedure skills or clerical training and no degree over someone with a history degree and no history in those fields when it comes to job placement time.

                    I also get the feeling that some folk, like the ones you mentioned above, figure some jobs…well, they are just too good for them. I have a degree and loans too, but I have worked retail, food service, painted houses, and yep, stripping ect., because hey, I needed money and needed the work, degree or not. People who are truly broke can’t afford to be snobs, and I am not sure these folk get that.

    • Ren says:

      I’ll admit my personal uneasy feelings towards socialism is from having relatives from/still in Russia. There are aspects of socialism I actually agree with. SOME.

      BTW Daisy, movie recommendation for you: “THe Trotsky” its awesome 🙂

      • D. says:

        Aaaghh, I knew I should have put a verb in there or something!

        I came by way of Daisy; she mentioned your blog a while back, so I’ve been dropping in about once a week. I’ve commented before.

        Sorry for the confusion.

  9. I don’t understand it either, given that our public school system, our police force and our fire department are all socialist. Why people draw the line at healthcare is just stupid.

    So they’ll educate a person, pay to keep a person from being robbed, pay to keep their house from burning down or their family from dying in a fire but get the flu and it’s fuck you loser!!

    The sad thing is, if we took all the money being spent on killing brown people in other countries and used it here, no one would go hungry or die from lack of health care.

  10. And the above point is this- If I’m forced to pay taxes no matter what, I’d prefer them going to saving lives instead of taking them.

    But that’s just my silly atheist lack of morals talking.

  11. Damn. Could be a helluva thing. Imagine every pissed off and pissed on Black Person, White Person, Native American Person, Hispanic Person, Asian Person, Male and Female Persons….hell ALL people who have been screwed, pullin THAT kinda shit, in NUMBERS…

    Damn. OWS would have NOTHING on that shit.

    Hey, a hick can dream….


    Also, happy belated birthday! I knew I was forgetting one of my November people.

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