Okay, fine then, a Rant…

Posted: October 27, 2011 in Humans, Rants
Tags:

So, I pissed some people off by writing about sexual assaults at OWS events.  Which still has me shaking my head and saying WTF, but hey, what can you do, and true enough, I was not speaking in glowing terms about the protesters or the conditions in which they are currently living…how horrible of me, even though the conditions have been described as less than pleasant and well, folk like this guy don’t tend to make me think real highly of them- nor do reports of rape, child rape, and victims being told not to say anything…so sue me, hate my guts, whatever, I fail to give a fuck because holy shit, when things like that are happening, I am not the one being willfully ignorant.

And I don’t normally get too political in my blogging here.  I, in general, try to avoid it like the plague, because I’ve seen and learned that talking politics with people whom you do not agree?  Fastest way in the world to turn everyone into a buncha screaming morons who simply cannot agree to disagree, and anything and everything about that other person is immediately forgotten because they don’t have the same politics.  Which is…well, sad and stupid IMHO.  I can like a person and not think lesser of them if they have different politics than me- but that ain’t a universal trait.  But oh well.  I’m a libertarian, that is known.  I am even a more right leaning libertarian than makes some folk comfortable; that too is probably known or suspected.  And yep, as you may have guessed…I *myself* am not into or supportive of OWS.  Do I think folk have a right to protest?  Yep.  Do I think they have a right and a reason to be pissed off?  Yep.  Do I support fully their right to free speech and to assemble and protest?  Absolutely.  I do.  They can have at it.  But I also think the second they get violent, or threatening, or endanger/harm/harass other people who are not on the same page as them (or in some cases are on the same page) well, then their rights do not outweigh anyone else’s.  And I sure as shit think some of these folks would have learned a thing or two from history: You swing on a cop, you better expect you’re gonna get hit too, media darlings of the moment or not.  You rush and damage police and city vehicles, expect you might get hurt when they try to move those things.  You piss off enough people, be it by your politics, the mess you are making in their cities, or yes, by shitting on their lawns, you might expect they are gonna get pissed off right back.  And maybe, just maybe, if you engage in violence of any kind or are afiliated with those who do or who advocate it (see second link), people might be violent back.   Unfortunate?  Yeah.  True?  Yeah.  As I have said before, if I had these folk camped out in my neighborhood and one of ’em decided to use my front yard as a toilet, there might be violence.  There would definitely be a call to the police.  And that is something I think the OWS folk and their supporters are forgetting…

Their actions?  They aren’t just affecting the cops or making the banks and politicians take notice.  They are affecting other people, you know, working and middle class folk like themselves who also got screwed, who also have debt, who also are worried as hell about the economy and their futures.  People who, for whatever reasons, have not joined the OWS crew and merely want to find/work/do their jobs, get a good nights sleep, take care of their families, keep their towns, cities, neighborhoods, streets as nice and safe and peaceful as possible.  YEAH, THOSE PEOPLE.  They are also being affected.  And they are also getting pissed off.  I can promise you, promise, that if I lived right next door to one of these OWS sites, I would probably be pissed as hell at these folks by now.  The noise, the hassle, the mess, the cops everywhere, yeah, I’d be real thrilled with all that right out my front door…especially when I am not a banker, a rich person, some fat cat business person, a politician, or anything other than another human being with debt and worries who got screwed just like a huge majority of Americans.  

And am I the only one out there thinking to myself “This shit never ends well?”  I can’t be really, can I?  When this sort of thing does succeed, well, it ends in war.  When it doesn’t?  It ends in Kent State/Tiananmen Square.  Hell, violence is already happening at these events between protesters and police, amid the protesters themselves, and if not already, soon enough it will be happening between protesters and non-police/non-protesters who have simply had enough.  And frankly, sorry, these protesters?  From what I have seen…I don’t have a real high opinion.  They got no more screwed than a lot of other people, seemingly have no respect for those other people who got screwed but have chosen not to protest but rather get up, take care of their business, and pay off their unfair and often undeserved debt, or have concerns and obligations which are More Important to themselves, their families, and their well-beings than, oh, protesting.  Hell, simple fact is, some people can’t afford to be protesters, and some have no desire to be socialists, or anarchists, or whatever else- or affiliated with them.  That doesn’t mean they got any less screwed over, just like the protesters.  And yeah, I think some of those people, the non-OWS ones?  They are sick, tired, pissed off, and annoyed as well.  And at this point, in thinking person mode I wonder…well, what happens when you have pissed off sick and tired protesters, pissed off sick and tired cops, pissed off sick and tired non-protesters, non-cops, all of whom who have been screwed over?  Nothing good.  And usually violent nothing good.

But you can only push people so far.  And IMHO, it is never smart to push people who are more heavily armed and better trained than you Too Far, or people who have done Nothing To You whom you are infringing upon Too Far, and when you do so?  You are a fucking idiot to think they will not push back.  Thusly, anyone who pushes- be it a cop you chuck something at or Joe/Jane Citizen who you are sleep depriving and messing up their property or treating them like crap in the name of politics- should be aware you might get pushed back.  And that is not a freakin’ excuse, it’s human nature.  Period.

When things get pushed, things get broken.  After all, revolution is never fun and games now, is it?

 

**COMMENTS NOW CLOSED

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Comments
  1. rootietoot says:

    “They are affecting other people, you know, working and middle class folk like themselves who also got screwed, who also have debt, who also are worried as hell about the economy and their futures.”

    Hello, yes, this. Ok yes, I have insurance, lucky me. I also lost over $50K of retirement funds when the company my husband worked for was taken over by Carl Icahn and he put it into bankruptcy. Oh poor me, at least I had retirement…well I don’t anymore. So yes, I am a middle class person who got screwed by the people OWS are protesting, and I am worried about the future and the economy, but I don’t see how holding a clever cardboard sign and living in a camp will fix it.

    • dead_vladimir says:

      lol i work for a carl icahn company!!

    • Ren says:

      and people who wanna get on the “oh, you have insurance” thing….uh, I myself, prolly you too, have insurance because we are married to dudes with insurance. Were that not the case? I seriously doubt I would have it, hell, couldn’t afford it!

      • rootietoot says:

        well, see, that’s Privilege too, getting lucky enough to marry a dude with insurance. Where’s your solidarity for The Cause, woman? I know if i weren’t married, and with the circumstances as they are right now, I wouldn’t have it either. But y’know, I trapped me a man with my feminine wiles and stuff, so I could have insurance. (and a Siamese cat)

        • hexy says:

          I might be wrong (haven’t followed the American chunk of the Occupy leg all that closely) but I think one part of what they’re saying is that this entire system you have where some people have insurance and some (most) people find it completely out of reach is complete bullshit.

          • rootietoot says:

            My problem is with the implication that my having insurance seems to be depriving others of having it. I have no problem with an overhaul of the system that provides better coverage for everyone. I know that I am privileged to have it. Am I supposed to refuse coverage out of solidarity or something? Would you, if you were able to have it?

    • I’ve said before I support some of Occupy’s general goals /my friends who are Occupiers. But I also agree with you in that it really leaves a sour taste in my mouth when activists and extremists (not meaning this as WOO SCARY PEOPLE, but just that it takes a certain kind of temperament to be the person at the protest rather than the person sitting at home partially agreeing) claim to speak for most people. And especially when they claim those not out there with them aren’t doing enough. It’s one of the reasons I stopped gpoing to feminist rallies even about the things I strongly agreed with.

      Mobs are powerful, but the mob mind is far less intelligent than the individual minds subsumed in it.

      • rootietoot says:

        I agree with some of the general goals too. hedge funds? zillionaires making money by selling numbers in a computer? It makes no sense to me to earn income without actually DOING something, making a product, that sort of thing. But I do not see the productivity in standing around with cardboard signs, making a mess, and turning into a seething mass of noise and anger. This simply isn’t productive. but what do I know,I’m in a nice insulated tower with shrubberies and a maid…oh wait…I *am* the maid.

      • Ren says:

        “Mobs are powerful, but the mob mind is far less intelligent than the individual minds subsumed in it.”

        YES! THIS!

    • Those idiots, throwing tea into Boston Harbor, what did they think would happen?

      • Ren says:

        Oh, they did what they did for a reason, and gave birth to a nation and all that…after a war. Is that what you really want, Daisy? ANother war? If so, you know, I can respect that actually, I can. Fighting a war for what you believe is pretty dang hardcore. Lots of people have done it, lots of countries have vastly changed after such things no doubt…but its still a war.

  2. The occupiers are starting to piss me off.

    This country has been occupied for 519 years, thanks. But they’re just now noticing because it bit them in the ass. Not a damn person on a reservation has noticed any difference. That should tell them something right there, but it won’t.

    They’re occupiers allright. Just not the way they think.

  3. *hair toss* I try

    🙂

  4. My rant on other thread is still in moderation.

    Pheeno, you sentencing me to death as an old person? Declaring I should not even ask for medicine? That is goddamn offensive too.

    I have as much right to live as you do, even if I am an old fart who needs thyroid hormone.

    Last post, I promise.

  5. No, I sentence you and the occupiers to get the fuck out of MY country, get off MY land and take all your white bullshit with you. Frankly, your culture and it’s bullshit is the problem. Not mine. We didn’t fuck this country (or planet for that matter) you did.

  6. Pheeno, let me explain something.

    1) Lil ole me does not have the money to move anywhere, let alone out of the country

    2) Ordering me to leave “your” country just sounds like another “love it or leave it” Tea Partier to me

    3) If you are typing on a computer made by people in Mauritius or have driven a car, you been fucking a few things up yourself, so get down off the high horse, Philadelphia-dweller

    4) How could you live on a Res and still be PC and preach to me about Philadelphia? Are you the Indigenous people of Philadelphia, or are you OCCUPYING land that was stolen from still OTHER people? I think you are taking advantage of white theft by living there, aren’t you? Or do you get a magic privilege pass just because you have proclaimed yourself like the original inhabitants? Well, *poof* — so do I then. I might be closer to THEIR relatives than you are, as a matter of fact. (PS: Got genealogy if you want it).

    5) You really think I can just leave here and it will automatically “go back to the Indians”??? 😀

    ROFL MAO you kill me. Oh yeah, Daisy will leave the USA, main colonizer that she is, and the country will revert to the Mohawk tomorrow!

    I can take “all my white bullshit with me”? So you are saying all the white people will up and leave the moment I do? REALLY? I had no idea I had the power to just leave the country and all the white people will move away the instant I do! Damn, that is.. well, I think it may be against the laws of physics.

    When people talk in fairy tales, THEY lose all credibility as serious political people. As I see you have no answers to the question (apologies to Lenin) “What is to be done?” A quick way of winnowing out the pretenders, he said, and he was right. (Okay so he DID know a FEW things.)

    Me grow up? That is the funniest goddamn thing I ever read.

  7. Well, my husband just announced that if I leave the country? He is still staying here…so I doubt I can convince the rest of the millions of whites to follow suit!

    ROFL

  8. Since we are playing Oppression Olympics, I have a few questions first.

    Pheeno, why aren’t you this nasty to Twisty @ I Blame the Patriarchy? You seem to worship her. Doesn’t she OWN a bunch of acreage that once belonged to the Comanche? Have you told her to move off of that land? I don’t even own land and you are telling me to move away. Why does Twisty get a privilege pass? And she can afford to move, too, unlike me. (Does she get a pass because she’s gay? As a bisexual, can I have half-a-pass, then?)

    Maybe you don’t talk this way to Twisty because she is a popular blogger and has a high-traffic blog? You sure don’t wanna get banned at the FUNHOUSE! By contast, its easy to attack some nobody like me, isn’t it? (Ohhh, how brave, such integrity!)

    When I see the indignation being fairly spread around, maybe then I will take it seriously.

    Also, is this you: http://www.hostingphpbb.com/forum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=3&mforum=handbasket&sid=49d74a403bcc2c23dec2ab0fcc1a85bf

    Are you unaware that the Lone Star Flag is a sign of Imperialism? (the Alamo) So why are you allowed to use colonialist symbols as avatars –but I can’t say “occupation”? Do you have to be Indigenous to get that privilege? If so, why use the Texas flag, which was first used by a bunch of white men to celebrate their triumph over Mexicans? Is it okay if other Texans use the flag you are proudly using as an avatar, or just the Indigenous Texans? How does that work?

    Damn, Oppression Olympics is a veritable labyrinth of confusion and collaboration, isn’t it.

    • dead_vladimir says:

      well maybe rather then whine that Twisty gets better treatment than you and expect all harrison bergeron like for the world to make you get the same treatment as her, you should look at what she does, figure out why she is more popular and treated better and strive to emulate her if you want the same treatment, rather than do something different than her and expect the same.

      I’ve bit my tongue through a lot of foolsih comments by several people in this chain, and i’m sure i’ll pay for opening it up now, but all i hear out of your mouth is poor daisy and what about me..
      People don’t pcik me to be ont he media comittee but i’m a radio star waahh
      or you like capitolism so why aren’t you hitting the pay pal button on my blog..waah
      or i am poor
      or sick etc
      and doesn’t anyone care about me?

      well let me ask you the $64 dollat question Daisy?
      why shoudl we care about you?
      What in particular do you offer us? what makes yo different or exceptional or any more important than anyone else?
      Life in the big city is tough daisy, and then you die. That’s the way of the world, no one owes you anything. You want us to give a damn about your problems, wel then, why? My resources to hlep people are limited are as most people’s , and I iwll give you a hint here, i tend like most people to give to people i care about, causes i support, things that advance my agenda and alter the world in ways I tihnk will make it better. As far as I can tell you don’t meet any of that criteria. Harsh? perhaps, but i ahven’t noticed oyu fighting for any of the things I believe in, and you know what I’m not out here going waaah.
      Life dealt you a shit hand? Your not the only one, people have had it better than you and people have had it worse.
      YOu needa job? why haven’t you auled oyur ass to Alabama to go work, they have jobs and not enough people now?
      I’ve left behind everything i know to find work movign away, etc etc; i’ve had rellatives hwo like the migrant workers of old, have lived years away ffrom their familes working and sneding moeny home. I hear you shout about your needs, but other than you telling other people what they need to do to fix your issues, i don’t see too much of that precious hard work you claim you can do in taking control of or fixing your own problems. Maybe rather than worrying aobut social responsibilty you should worry aobut personal responsibitl for a bit.

      Your probably a very ncie decent generous person in person, with insightful views, but based on what i’ve seen so far, eehhh.

      ****by the way this is no means a rejection of any sort of claim that our inacial institutions are fucked and fucking us-**************

  9. Dear Dead, wait, that’s me.

    Dear Vlad,

    well maybe rather then whine that Twisty gets better treatment than you and expect all harrison bergeron

    Ah, Vonnegut quoting. It’s starting out to be an ultra-trendy comment, folks. (battens down the hatches)

    Clarification: Asking a question is not whining. It is a question, and I am genuinely curious. Pheeno is telling me to leave the country, and I don’t even own any property… apparently if I did own a BUNCH of property and talked about it all the time, I would be okay with her. (?) I find that patently bizarre.

    Don’t you?

    like for the world to make you get the same treatment as her, you should look at what she does, figure out why she is more popular and treated better and strive to emulate her if you want the same treatment, rather than do something different than her and expect the same.

    I thought that is what I asked? (Hm, is it the words I used, that nobody got that?)

    I’ve bit my tongue through a lot of foolsih comments by several people in this chain, and i’m sure i’ll pay for opening it up now, but all i hear out of your mouth is poor daisy and what about me..

    Actually, thought I was defending the occupation and my right to occupy… rather, my “qualifications” for occupying. Pheeno says we are all middle class fucks, and I was merely saying no, I am one of the unemployed that this is about. Rootie said we are all eating organic beet salad, and I said, no, we are eating peanut butter and jelly. Pheeno said old people are taking up too much money in Social Security, so I did ask about medicine, etc… because how much is too much? During Sunday’s occupation, a Herman Cain supporter came up and argued with us and said much the same thing, that some people’s medical care was just too much for govt to support, which is what I thought Pheeno was also saying. Is this your view also?

    I WILL correct erroneous views of who the occupiers are, because I think these stereotypes are having some really BAD side effects, like people getting shot.

    People don’t pcik me to be ont he media comittee but i’m a radio star waahh

    (((reads back)))

    Did I say this on Ren’s blog? Are you now trashing me for what I write on MY OWN BLOG? Excuse me, but I will write what I please, and if it bothers you so much, please do not click over there.

    I am on the outreach committee, and yeah, I would rather be on another committee, but I can handle it. Why is this so important to you? I did not write that here. (?) It is not something I was discussing here.

    or you like capitolism so why aren’t you hitting the pay pal button on my blog..waah

    Again, are you now talking about my blog instead of what I have written here in this thread?

    Why are you reading it if it bothers you so much? Yes, I am worried about my bills, and yes, like Ren, sometimes I have asked for money. Is that okay when Ren has done it, or is it just me that isn’t supposed to?

    Why?

    or i am poor
    or sick etc
    and doesn’t anyone care about me?

    Well, those things do concern me, especially when I hear Herman Cain and the fact that he now is up to 29% in the polls! Maybe if you were poor or sick, might worry you a bit too. Then when the radicals like Pheeno decided he’s right and echo his reasoning about Social Security? Yow, sounds like a lot of people’s days are numbered.

    Do you agree that Social Security should be destroyed?

    well let me ask you the $64 dollat question Daisy?
    why shoudl we care about you?

    Um, well, the same reason I care about you: you are human and we share the earth together.

    Is that a bad thing?

    What in particular do you offer us? what makes yo different or exceptional or any more important than anyone else?

    In particular, I was defending the occupation. But no, I am no different or more exceptional than anyone at all. (That’s the whole point: if I was, I wouldn’t worry about these things.. as it is, I think the things happening to me are happening to lots and lots people right now, at least in the USA.) I think I am pretty typical… I have worked hard all my life and now financially, I am doing badly. I think MOST Americans (99%?) could say that right now.

    2b continued

    • dead_vladimir says:

      err I am replying to a lot of comments of yours through out the chain of several psots here- I did go to your blog to read it because you referenced things said there in this whole chain of going on here-i figured i should read it since you referred to it

      Perhaps it is unfair of me here to comment on your solicting donations on your blog-and for the record I am not agaisnt asking for money; it was the tone of your snarky well if you beleive in capitolsim donate money to me; so I apologize for introducing it here as that is unfair.

      As for point 1) i don’t find it bizaare -I suspect Pheeno finds something Twisty brings to whatever dialectic they have ( i am no idea as to be honest idon’t even know who twisty is) worthwhile enoguh for her to forgive/ignore/etc whatever the property issue. Apparently to Pheeno you don not; that is not saying you are inherently worse or better than anyone else, just saying by what ever criteria Pheeno uses, you rate lower than Twisty, and that is perfectly acceptable; people can impose whatever subjective value they like on things that matter to them. (it be different if she was an institution)

      • dead_vladimir says:

        2) I don;t know what you thought you were saying, but waht you were actualyl saying is why do you treat her better to me , and listing all these reasons -she’s a landowner, she has a popular blog is that why you treat her different than me-and that is just whining, if you want to be treated like someone else, do exactly what they do and then if you aren’t treated the same-assume its personal bias-but again, people are free not to like you even if you do all that, though i suspect, that probably becasue you are your own individual and do your own thing, there are significant differences between you and twisty-that’s not a bad thing but apparently it doesn’t appeal to Pheeno enough for her to cut you slack on what she views as the indigineous people issue (don’t take this as an agreement with her posited point) vs white issue.

        • dead_vladimir says:

          3) you assume I am not poor or sick-i could be filthy rich, i could be dirt poor, i have made no claims to either -same thing for health vs ill-honestly I am not sick (knocks on wood) to my knowledge, and I owuld not call myself poor, but i have been very poor probably for a larger portion of my life than not- I am not rich or well off or anything like that; I would classify myself as surviving not thriving and as I said above I am not saying there is not something very wrong iwth our financial institutions, and i am most assuredly in the 99% and in fact i’d even say in the bottom 50% though that’s a guess- I will say this the I am the 99% protestors are not speaking for me and that makes them liars because they don’t speak for the entire 99% -we may all be under that umbrella but they are not my voice. and my god, yes as it exists social security should be destroyed, teared down and trampled, shot in the head, then beheaded with the body burned and the ashes scattered to the winds and th eehad buried at a crossroads with its mouth stuff full of garlic and communion wafers so it can never rise again.

          4) I have no actual proof you care about me, now do I,? in fact i suspect ifyou got to know me, you’d care very little for me, simply because my beliefs are so antiethical as to yours. Now that is not to say I want you to die or etc Nor is it not to say that i ahve not in my life done cahrity work, given to causes privately, and i don’t mean political cuases, i mean feed the hungry, helpabandoned children, hell help abused pets. i do think though at th eend of the day, that is my choice, ad no one else gets to decide to force to make me care or decide i owe them somethingeverytime A takes soemthing from B in the name of giving it to C to make things more equal, you know A is a scoundrel.

          • Vlad, I have not assumed anything about you, other than you are trolling my blog for details to write here and make me look bad, which I guess is SOP. I know nothing at all about you. How could I?

            So, you ARE against Social Security? Then are you saying old people should be put down? Most (all colors, all sexes) could not survive otherwise, so what is your proposal instead? Or do you simply not care what happens to people who are old and disabled?

            Vladsy: I have no actual proof you care about me, now do I,? in fact i suspect ifyou got to know me, you’d care very little for me, simply because my beliefs are so antiethical as to yours.

            Dude, trying to be a good Buddhist and love da people. I actually do though, which is why I left Christianity, I could not bear to keep on thinking people would all BURN simply for believing something different (or not believing at all).

            I am married to someone who I disagree with often. I do not have to agree with people to like or love them. I love both Ren and Rootie, for example. I argue with them as I would with sisters… I simply did not expect to be eviscerated here, but hey, why not. It happens on every blog I go to, now… and see, I really don’t think I am the worst person in the world. What I think is that I am old, uncool, not trendy, poor, stupid/uneducated. so it is “safe” to attack me as you and Pheeno have. (which was my point about Twisty)

            Keep up the good work, almost time for Law and Order reruns and laundry-folding to start. I will fucking DIE from all the excitement.

      • it was the tone of your snarky well if you beleive in capitolsim donate money to me; so I apologize for introducing it here as that is unfair.

        Snarky? Somebody who is friends with Ren is against SNARKY?

        Jesus H.

        That was a joke, son.

        • dead_vladimir says:

          I’ll be honest, I didn’t go trolling your blog-you actually said one or two things that peaked my interest enough to look (specifically i went looking for your post about the sexual harrasment at the Occupy event you were at because i was genuinely interested in your experience and tend to give people wo comment on Ren’s blog regualrly an initial level of assumed respect-ie they have something to say that will be worth my time to read- whilethere i did a fair bit of reading and found i didn’t care for it-in fact my biggest objection to you is when you say things like a republican licked his lips and said “what about yucca mountain” -your a zealot who engages in many of the behaviors in objectfying people who disagree with you that you complain about people doing to you)-Ren will tell you outside of this, a gun blog, and our evil white male conspiracy to keep everyone else down forum, I’m not a blog person.

          I do also find it intersting that you are quick to call out the man splaining card as if I am dismissing your view points because you are female when I never said or implied so-again I find that interesting-when rather I am dismissing your view points becasue i find them naieve, unworkable, and slighty hypocritl And as a whole very self aggrandizing. In fact if you notice, in being a man I tned not to comment on the feminsitc threads as a whole becasue a lot of it is something i can never experienvce and have no idea what it must be like.

          I commented here becasue i find the mindset behind the Occupy movements to be one that I believ ill make the world a worse place.

  10. “1) Lil ole me does not have the money to move anywhere, let alone out of the country ” Tough shit. I’m not interested in the trials and tribulations of colonizers.

    “2) Ordering me to leave “your” country just sounds like another “love it or leave it” Tea Partier to me ” It would to your WP ears. Doesn’t surprise me, it’s a typical colonist whine. This country was stolen from MY people, MY family, MY direct line all the way back to the damn Dawes Roll since that’s all we mattered enough to trace. I don’t care if you love it, hate it or practice daily indifference. You’re a squatter. Period. Your opinion on it doesn’t change it.

    “3) If you are typing on a computer made by people in Mauritius or have driven a car, you been fucking a few things up yourself, so get down off the high horse, Philadelphia-dweller ”

    Philly? No. My family lives on rez in South Carolina and some in OK. It’s MY land to fuck up, colonizer.

    “I think you are taking advantage of white theft by living there, aren’t you? ”

    No. We were forced here, thanks. Any and every situation we are in in a direct result of past and present colonizers. And you’re a colonizer.

    “I can take “all my white bullshit with me”? So you are saying all the white people will up and leave the moment I do? REALLY? ”

    I’m saying all of you should. Especially the ones bitching that they’re not getting enough of the pie from their illegal genocidal government. Fuck you and fuck your government. Am I supposed to care you don’t get enough of our stolen resources? REALLY?

    I don’t care if every single right and privilege you have is stripped from you this very moment. It’s not yours, it never was and it comes at our expense. So take your racist crap and shove it, because I do not and will not sympathize. I’m busy not being exterminated.

    “Pheeno, why aren’t you this nasty to Twisty @ I Blame the Patriarchy?”

    When I call HER on HER WP, she doesn’t pull out the racist Bingo card. Yanno, like YOU.

    She knows and acknowledges that she’s a colonizer. Guess your racism needs a little more work.

    “Do you have to be Indigenous to get that privilege?”

    Yep. Next?

    “Damn, Oppression Olympics is a veritable labyrinth of confusion and collaboration, isn’t it.”

    When white people such as yourself join in, it tends to be. Is there anything you people don’t fuck up? Weren’t satisfied with killing us, now you have to make sure we know how very hard you have it too? I’ll cry you a river. I promise.

    Again, this country has been occupied for 519 years. BY YOU.

    Oh and you need to brush up on NDN history, because there were other Tribes prior to Comanche.

    Figures that’s the only one you know. And Twistsy specific area? Wasn’t Comanche. It was Tonkawa first.

    • Pheeno, what is this really about? Seriously, do you think I am the enemy?

      I am asking if you tell Twisty, on her blog, you want us all to leave? Do you mean just me? So Twisty has the right to stay? Ren? How about Rootie? What is the price of getting to stay, agreement with you?

      Well, I’m sorry, I have no money, can’t even drive to the store to get fabric softener.

      Who do I apply to, for a dispensation to stay? Is this like, the Khmer Rouge? Well, go ahead and fucking shoot then, but can’t guarantee my kid and her Texas family won’t avenge my death, like in THE WILD BUNCH (my favorite “occupier” movie).

      Rootie and Ren, I take it you agree with this? So, are yall leaving? Can I hitch a ride?

      This is comical.

      Pheeno, let me cut to the chase:

      Do you have any proof you exist, in the form you present yourself? Like, a Facebook page with people on it who have actually MET you? I can’t seem to find anything but shit-stirring, not surprisingly. Do you do anything ELSE of any note? What?

      Color me skeptical. Certainly, the Native American activists I came up with would have hanged us by the neck for having anything to do with a Texas (Alamo imperialist!) flag. As I asked, why are you yowling about the word “occupation” but you can use this famously imperialist flag of US triumphalism and vanquished Mexicans? Why is this special dispensation granted only to Indigenous people? And what fractions qualify? I am Melungeon, so I might, you know.

      So you are allowed to use the Texas flag, but no one else is? Do you propose ID checks on people who have the bumper sticker, to make sure they are properly oppressed enough to use it?

      Whoever accuses me of political incorrectness, internet call out style, better be goddamn perfect. PERFECT. Otherwise, I will show you the error of your ways, as you have shown me mine. That’s fair, isn’t it? (Actually, anyone who proudly flies the flag of the white land-owners who fought at the Alamo, probably ain’t much for fairness, right? Or is the Alamo good now? What is the spin? I am curious.)

      Please explain that imperialist flag of Mexican death, that you fly on that profile. It isn’t cute. Your governors are about to destroy Western Civ… maybe you should deal with your local problems and make sure your newest evil governor is not elected president, as your last evil governor was? I can see why you want to focus on other people’s politics, since Texas progressives have been so ineffectual. I’d be embarrassed and try to shift the blame too.

      Deal with YOUR OWN DISGUSTING PIG-ELECTED OFFICIALS, okay? I deal with my governor and try to keep her from being inflicted on the rest of you (which BTW, IS the far-reaching game plan) –now take some responsibility, and deal with YOURS. All politics is local. Now, deal with the shit in your own backyard, Texas. When you have a born-again swine like Rick Perry unleashed on the country, ashes and sackcloth are in order, not pointing your fingers at others… and certainly, not proudly flying that white boy flag while claiming you are Mostest Oppressedest.

      Uh huh.

      I am not the enemy… I am curious what you have actually done to confront our common enemies.

  11. “Pheeno says we are all middle class fucks, and I was merely saying no, I am one of the unemployed that this is about. ”

    Uh, no. Pheeno is saying you’re all colonizing squatters and therefore doesn’t give a shit if you’re middle class, upper class or lower class, you’re all on stolen land.

    So take your gripe about not getting enough stolen resources and benefits from occupying stolen land and shove em.

    Not getting anything that hasn’t been coming for 519 years IMO.

  12. DEAR OCCUPY: Stop asking Indigenous Peoples to “join you”. Humble yourselves and acknowledge that Indigenous Peoples have been waiting for you to join US in the struggle against imperialism, colonialism and their bastard child capitalism, for a very, very long time. Check your privilege please. Thanks…..Barbara Low

    This bears repeating for the thick headed.

  13. Vlad the Impaler continues:

    Life in the big city is tough daisy, and then you die. That’s the way of the world, no one owes you anything.

    That’s your religion, hon, not mine. I think we all owe each other tremendously. Speak for yourself.

    You want us to give a damn about your problems, wel then, why?

    Um, because I care about yours? Because we share the earth together and Buddha told me to have compassion for you. Etc.

    My resources to hlep people are limited are as most people’s , and I iwll give you a hint here, i tend like most people to give to people i care about, causes i support, things that advance my agenda and alter the world in ways I tihnk will make it better.

    That’s nice. (you should say that like Sandy Dennis in “Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf” for proper elocution)

    As far as I can tell you don’t meet any of that criteria. Harsh? perhaps,

    Wow! I’ll try not to lose any sleep tonight! (((sobs brokenheartedly)))

    but i ahven’t noticed oyu fighting for any of the things I believe in, and you know what I’m not out here going waaah.

    As I said, I was specifically defending the occupation, what we’re doing, and talking about why *I* am personally participating. If you read that as “waaah”–well, I wonder what you think when people really ARE saying “waaah”–I can imagine that you are probably a veritable wellspring of empathy.

    But that’s interesting… this is a great example of the whole “culture of the call out” on the internet: if you speak impersonally, people yell at you that you have to share your “lived experience”… but if you do THAT, as we see here, then you are whining and saying “waaah”… so basically, they just want some of us to STFU… right? Isn’t that what you are telling me?

    I have as much right to an opinion, and to express it, as you do.

    Life dealt you a shit hand? Your not the only one, people have had it better than you and people have had it worse.

    See last post. As I said, I think I am typical of what is happening in the US economy right now.

    YOu needa job? why haven’t you auled oyur ass to Alabama to go work, they have jobs and not enough people now?

    Alabama unemployment rate was 9.8% last month, higher than the average of the US as a whole, 9/1%
    http://www2.dir.state.al.us/Laus/CLF/ALUS.aspx

    What the hell are you talking about?

    I’ve left behind everything i know to find work movign away, etc etc; i’ve had rellatives hwo like the migrant workers of old,

    I have picked apples and green beans for wages also. Not just my relatives, but me too.

    have lived years away ffrom their familes working and sneding moeny home. I hear you shout about your needs, but other than you telling other people what they need to do to fix your issues, i don’t see too much of that precious hard work you claim you can do in taking control of or fixing your own problems.

    That is why I joined the occupation; I freely admit, I don’t know what else to do… and you are so clueless, you think I should move to Alabama.

    A guy called in Saturday (speaking of the radio show) and told me the same thing… was that you? He sounded high… next time, don’t toke up before calling… he kept fading in and out.

    Maybe rather than worrying aobut social responsibilty you should worry aobut personal responsibitl for a bit.

    Well, at least I take responsibility for looking up unemployment figures before making a fool of myself.

    Your probably a very ncie decent generous person in person, with insightful views, but based on what i’ve seen so far, eehhh.

    Right back atcha, Mister Knowitall! I love mansplainin though, its so quaint and old school.

    Tell me some more ‘facts’ Vlad… just try to keep the discussion about what is posted here, and not everything I have ever said, okay?

    ****by the way this is no means a rejection of any sort of claim that our inacial institutions are fucked and fucking us-**************

    No, you just want to take me down a notch. Got it!

    • dead_vladimir says:

      To the my religon comment,
      you might feel we all each other tremendously, but all I here is you telling the rest of us what we owe you, it’s very easy to espouse that we all owe each other something philosophy when we have nothing, after all, that’s the philosophy that gets you what you want.

      Me , I’ll take the we all owe each other nothing, because that way, my hard work ain’t carrying anyone else unless I want it too. As the Athenians learned to their shame freedom only lasts until a majority starts voting themselves largess out of the public treasury.
      The truth is my philosophy imposes nothing on anyone but myself; but yours involves an awful lot of dictating to other people what they should do , for the greater good, but here’s the thing-who decides that? I know I don’t agree with a whole lot of people on what the public good is.

      Actually you haven’t been following the news with the passing of Alabama’s new state level immigration laws there have been a large drop in migrant workers there, leading to a wide level of open jobs; hence the comment to move there, also the one oil boom region of the Dakotas also have plenty of jobs if you are willing to relocate. Also one should research an issue before thinking they’ve killed it with one quick glance fact.

      Um, never called your show and that comment seems a lot like well an attack to kind of diminish me, how quaint, right up there with the mansplaining. But i that’s okay, those sort of comments are the last refuge of a failed argument.

      As for the eehh comment, I wasn’t implying you weren’t decent or generous because of how you were acting here, rather i am saying despite those things, i am going ehhh on you.
      You can express your opinons b the way as much as you want, but just be prepared not everyone hsares them, drwaws the same conclusions as you do, or magically feels you are right.

      As for taking you down a noth, Daisy, i hate to break it to you, you need to have power and position be taken down a notch. To me this whole occupy movement is more of what we’ve seen time and time again, you claim you all want to make the farm better for all the animals, but all you guys really want to do is have the farmer’s spot as far as I can tell.

      • Vlad: but all I here is you telling the rest of us what we owe you

        Where did I say this? Quote please? I think we owe EACH OTHER, nobody owes ME specifically.

        it’s very easy to espouse that we all owe each other something philosophy when we have nothing, after all, that’s the philosophy that gets you what you want.

        Nothing? you say I have nothing? Ah, you mean OWNING STUFF, I see. Those are your values, not mine.

        I have humor, family, love, friends, ideas, culture, learning.. maybe not as much as you, but I can contribute and I do. I have much to share with people and I do. I owe that to people, which is one reason I am clarifying my comments here. I owe people who are reading my words, the clarification of getting them right. Etc.

        Me , I’ll take the we all owe each other nothing

        If I call you narcissistic and selfish, Ren will put her boot in my ass, so let me just say I think this idea is… um, severely lacking and would leave the world a piece of unusable shit. So I have to disagree. I notice you have not answered my questions about what to do with old and disabled people?

        If they do not concern you, how about sitting out the discussions of what to do about them, then? Since you admit that you don’t care? Turn the entire issue over to those of us who DO care?

        So, euthanasia for old people? Euthanasia centers as in SOYLENT GREEN? Is that what you think is a good idea? (asking seriously)

        but yours involves an awful lot of dictating to other people what they should do

        When did I do this? Seems you are the one calling names (whiner, etc), ordering me to move to Alabama and break up my marriage!

        PS: Ren, when did I trash Alabama? I merely quoted unemployment stats.

        Actually you haven’t been following the news with the passing of Alabama’s new state level immigration laws there have been a large drop in migrant workers there

        Where is Pheeno, and why is she not challenging you on this? Wait, she hasn’t said ANYTHING to you OR Rootie, has she? See what I mean? I am always the one singled out… even when (especially when) there are other people in the thread who are far more conservative than I am, but they get off scot free. I *never* understand this dynamic, but it happens to me all the time… (actually I DO understand, but just pointing it out… this can make you feel like you are under siege all the time, online. This is undoubtedly why I am defensive, I am TIRED of it.,)

        BTW, do you agree with Pheeno? Are you white and are you leaving the country? When? And why did you not reply to HER when she said that? Why do I upset you *more*?

        Why are you picking on me instead of the person who proudly hates white men? Why am I getting singled out? I have not said the most offensive stuff on this thread… when are you calling out Pheeno, who wants to ship all whites out of the country? Or is it because she is Native American that she gets a pass from you?

        I guess you have your own biases too, then, huh?

        As for taking you down a noth, Daisy, i hate to break it to you, you need to have power and position be taken down a notch.

        And you have spent a good deal of your comment explaining to me why you are better than me, so isn’t that what you were doing? Making it clear that you HAVE that power and position? Right? You are putting me in my place, “calling me out” as is popular in the “internet call-out culture”– character assassination, pronouncing on whether I am worth listening to or not.

        To me this whole occupy movement is more of what we’ve seen time and time again, you claim you all want to make the farm better for all the animals, but all you guys really want to do is have the farmer’s spot as far as I can tell.

        You talkin to me? Well, I’m the only one here.

        I think the farm animals should all be FREE of course. Bad analogy for a vegetarian. 😉

  14. rootietoot says:

    I’ve left the conversation because I’m far too busy oppressing the hardworking unemployed people whilst drinking bottled mineral water from France…oh wait, it’s Italian…anyway….

  15. Oh and in case I’m still not clear Daisy-

    You are fighting a white mans revolution. I will never support that, because it has never supported me. In fact, it’s been hell bent on eradicating me since it stepped foot on Turtle Island.

    Your failure or success will change NOTHING on reservations. And conditions on reservations are all I care about. Not you, not your job or lack of one, not your goals, not your healthcare. None of it. I’m watching a bunch of spoiled ass white folks fight for a piece of the pie that was never theirs to fight over. And in doing so, racism is running rampant as well as sexism. But as always POC are expected to take a back seat while you get your shit straight.

    Not gonna happen. Sorry, I’m an uppity NDN savage that way. Deal with it.

  16. Uh, no. Pheeno is saying you’re all colonizing squatters and therefore doesn’t give a shit if you’re middle class, upper class or lower class, you’re all on stolen land.

    I have never argued this point.

    You are arguing with phantoms.

    not your healthcare

    At least I know now that you ARE a proud ableist/ageism, and can disregard. Racism is not the only form of oppression you know.

    Too bad you have adopted the ways of whites… Native Americans usually were not as ableist as whites.

    Waiting for Rootie to register disagreement, since she is upset with me for saying “Rethuglican”–LOL.

  17. But as always POC are expected to take a back seat while you get your shit straight.

    Um, did you read? I have Melungeon DNA, tested positive. this would explain why so much of my family did not leave the Cumberland Gap, they had always been there.

    But I guess that isn’t a cool group, so never mind.

    • You must have forgotten Melungeon are accepted as white. Mixed racial heritage isn’t unusual in this country, given the enthusiasm white men have for raping WOC. Was a fantastic and easy way to legally take NDN land back in the day too. But that’s not romantic so we’ll just pretend it was all consentual each and every time.

      Having distant relatives of another color bingo? Check.

      • Um, the Melungeon culture is a tri-racial culture and always has been, this is not “distant” relatives. (?) This is what it IS. And not “another color”–tri-racial IS the race. This is my grandmother. Yes, her daughter was accepted as white, but the rumors about her is what sent me looking for the DNA test. If DNA begins to be taken as the ethnic marker (rather than verbal claims to ethnicity), I will probably qualify. (There was a very good article in Mother Jones about that a few years ago.)

        You gonna answer those questions about that Texas flag? If you hate white people so much, why the white people’s Victory flag? I have asked several times now… no snappy reply? Or was that another incarnation?

        And why are you singling me out in this thread? I found a thread on Violet Socks’ where you defended Sarah Palin. I have to say, your politics are not the most consistent, so your (very selective) indignance seems to be about ME, right? Are you having fun?

        Why is Sarah Palin not a colonialist? Because she lives in Alaska?

        Love it.

      • Is this you? Our hair appears to be the same color, whaddaya know.

        http://www.punkrockers.com/pheenobarbidoll

        Oh yeah, your oppression is so instantly obvious! I am sure you are oppressed every where you go, beautiful lady.

        I guess if I looked like you, I’d be ableist and ageist too.

        Lets cut the bullshit, huh?

  18. Ren says:

    Now is the time when the Supreme Commander of the Zombie Legions tells pretty much everyone to…

    Shut the Fuck Up. I will prolly close comments on this thread by tomorrow because it’s degenerated something fierce.

    A few things thou…

    Do Not Shit on Vlad on my Blog- he is one of my RL/Meat Space best friends and while he leans to the Right (which hey, so do I often), he is over all a pretty dang awesome person who DOES go to the wall for folk he cares about. Don’t Bait Rootie, who has pretty much left the conversation.

    And no need to insult Alabama as a state or the people who live there here either, folk should KNOW how I feel about that shit by now…I’ve made that pretty clear, yeah?