Let’s say, theoretically of course, you knew…

Posted: September 28, 2011 in Assholes, Humans, Rants

this gal.  She may or may not have a rep for settling things with her fists, she may or may not have a record.  You hear that she and some friends, all gals too, of varying similarity to her- from very to not at all- decided to go out for a gals nite; have a beer, listen to some music, maybe play some pool- low key things of that nature.  Whilst out said gal is hit on by someone.  This someone is not polite about it and will not take no for an answer, even puts their hands, uninvited, on this gal.  So she decks ’em.  Hard.  Like possibly police involvement hard. 

Did the person deserve it?  The getting decked?  Yes or no?


Okay, now, say the person who got decked by said gal also happens to be a woman?  Of the lesbian variety.  Does this change things?

And then tries to have not only assault but gay bashing/hate crime charges brought up on said gal.  What then?

Said gal counters with sexual battery charges, everyone walks away clear….

Now, lets change it up a bit.  The  folk out for the evening are dudes.  Of any color or class or mode of dress or what have you.  And one of these straight boys is in the same situation and reacts the same way.  Does that change shit? 

I don’t think it does at all in my opinion.  My opinion is as follows:  Unwanted sexual advances, be they made by straight folk or  gay folk are JUST that, and just as I would oh, stand up for or cheer on a gal who decked a dude who pulled that shit….I’d prolly be on the side of ANY person, regardless of sex or sexual preference, who stood up to, even decked, someone who was making unwanted sexual advances on them- and I sure as shit don’t believe them doing so is a hate crime.  A pack of sneo-nazi skinheads beating up a gay person or a person of color just because they are gay or not white?  Hate crime.  A pack of gangbangers beating up a gay person or a person of a different color just because of that?  Also a hate crime.  Hell, ANYONE beating on anyone “just because they are – insert color, gender, sexual preference, so on- hate crime….

Someone decking someone else, gay or straight, because they are making unwanted sexual advances?  Not a hate crime.  Period.  And any scum ass douchebag who tries to pull the hate crime shit on that sorta thing?  Totally deserves gettin’ decked a few more times.

  1. Dude, anybody who lays hands on various parts of my body—-especially the parts that are more, um, special than others—–better bring a fuckin’ pillow with them to cushion their head when it bounces off the floor. Because if they’re lucky, all they get is decked.

    • Ren says:

      “better bring a fuckin’ pillow with them to cushion their head when it bounces off the floor”

      Pure Poetry, Gin, and I am stealing it.

  2. Heh.

    I was out with a bunch of buddies after graduation from a course near Fort Bragg and I was the only one dressed as a civvie. I was leaning over to make my shot when some asshole grabbed my ass. I gave him a warning, then turned back to the table and—he did it again. See what you get for being nice? I slammed the pool cue into his unmentionables, he hit the floor clutching the ole family jewels—or semiprecious gemstones—-and wailed as only an asshole can whine after their behavior has gotten punished. “Bitch, you hurt me!”
    “Asshole, I said I was going to! Do you want a fucking telegram next time?”

  3. Best part was all my army buddies going, “Sheesh, gin, we can dress you up but we can’t take ya anywhere, can we?” before they hustled me out.

  4. Well, Ren and Vlad already quoted all my favorite parts Gin, so I’ll just second them. That asshole you decked I guess didn’t bother to think that, what being so close to Fort Bragg that you might be an army chick that could kick his ass? Or that the army dudes you were with might brawl with him since he didn’t heed your warning?

    • My Army buds knew how I felt if they interfered and acted like I couldn’t handle myself. I guess at the time—twenty years ago—-there wasn’t as much acceptance of army chicks, and some people might think that only certain—meaning unattractive—women would sign up. I was a ballet dancer before I joined the Army, and I’m about an inch taller than Ren, though she’s tinier than I am right now because I’m scarfing up all kinds of drugs. I was wearing a teensy little black dress, and I bet I’d have been blamed for that asshole’s behavior on the grounds I’d somehow provoked him—–how come guys suddenly stop being so provoked after a couple of warning shots?
      You can dress up or down any way, and both assholes—-the assholes in Ren’s post, and that one in the pool hall—-were pretty much identical, except in Ren’s scenario, I think the person is even worse because they’re a predator and they’re trying to flip it around on the victim, very cynically. Which just goes to show how very manipulative most of these scumbags are. This person in this scenario is why anybody who whines how ‘all those false rape accusations really hurt real victims’ is so full of shit. I’d say that the person in Ren’s scenario illustrates it perfectly. The attacker in Ren’s scenario is trying to make him or herself into the true victim at Ren’s expense. Some people will buy into this because they think the case is complicated. It’s not. Somebody attacked somebody else sexually, then turned around and tried to get out of it by using a manuver that will genuinely damage people who are the victims of the ‘straight panic’ defense.
      We haven’t come that far from twenty years ago, because the me from twenty years ago—I still have the dress!—–is no more likely to get a trial today than is the genuine victims in Ren’s post. And if it went to trial, well…..

      • Oh I see. Twenty years makes a difference. Yeah, Ren and I had a nice little rant about her experience last night.

        • Yeah, if I start ranting about that——-I just saw a video of an Army chick holding her own—and then some—-against an Army dude in hand-to-hand combat and then first comment was some asshole saying women couldn’t fight men and therefore shouldn’t be in combat. Yeah, because the trigger finger is some gender-specific organ.

          As for the other part of twenty years changing things, well…..I hope so, but I doubt it. I just hope this jerk gets nailed for something that really will hurt people.

          • The GIFT* is responsible for so much on the interwebs. As though every man can fight? Or as though every enemy combatant on a battlefield will be as highly trained as our female soldier? Please

            Trigger: Is this a female digit wrapped around me? Oh dear, I will not fire!


            • Mariah Burton Nelson has written some amazing books about sports that have a much larger context. “The Stronger Women Get, the More Men Like Football” talks about the mindset you touched on—-all men are stronger, faster, better? Yeah, there were a bunch of eighteen-year-old soldiers I could beat at Basic—-male and female. The male ideal body, for example—-well, ideal for Ahnold Schwarzenegger fans—-makes it harder to function effectively as a soldier and run fast and do pushups.
              Nobody from Muqtada al-Sadr’s Mahdi Army did a panty check before they opened up on us after an ambush.

              • I will have to check those out!

                I’ve always criticized that idealized male body because it’s so useless in an actual fight. It’s TOO HEAVY! No less than if all those rippling muscles were fat. Running fast is definitely necessary and you might have to do a “push up” to get heavy debris off your back.

                Just like the comic books with the male superheroes. I guess they get a pass because they’re also using superpowers but if they didn’t have those, they could easily end up a detriment on the battlefield instead of an advantage.

  5. The Russians did a study in the nineties or earlier to find out how to make a physically effective soldier. They found it started with a strong back, strong core, and strong legs, plus a certain degree of limberness—-in terms of more-than-usual stretching. Such a soldier had greater endurance and took less calories to maintain, plus had the useful strength needed to do the job AND fade into many local populations, where nutrition may produce a markedly smaller body than the stereotypical bodybuilder, for example. These guys were fast, could manuever in tight corners, hide in small spaces, and still carry a lot of weight. They also had a lot of endurance. Over the years this study filtered through the other Eastern bloc countries.
    Those immense muscles so popular in the west require enormous amounts of calories, energy, and space—-plus steroids. For all that you just don’t get a lot of bang for your buck. They’re not that strong—and to maintain them you have to invest in special equipment, too. They’re bulky, obvious in certain populations, and easy to injure. Michael Phelps eats upwards of 20,000 calories a day when he’s training and competing, which is about equal to three or four MREs. Well, I lost so weight at Basic eating those things every training day that I lost so much weight I was below my dancing weight. They made me eat chocolate cake and stuff like that to try and keep my weight up but it just wasn’t enough.
    One of my favorite topics, you haz touched on it.
    I notice that you see a lot of this common sense attitude in some countries in Europe. I ate well—-oh, GAWD—-in France and still lost weight. It’s practical. If that makes sense. You do a lot more walking in places like France and so you tend to develop a core, plus you eat fresh food. I find it intriguing that that’s the kind of culture that produced this study. Life in Russia is very similar, too.

    • One of my favorite topics too! Like you, I took ballet (about fifteen years from 4-19). Despite being very thin (much thinner than I am now) I was much stronger than I looked. A lot of endurance and I could carry a lot of weight because those costumes can be HEAVY!

      I was just thinking about the conversation and in conjunction with a new favorite topic of mine, medieval warfare, that armor was more of a hindrance and undermined the goal of protecting the wearer. Heavy, bulky, in addition to a heavy weapon that must be swung around on top of controlling a mount that really doesn’t want to be there.

      My uncle Meredith used to lift weights a lot and when he had heart problems, the density of his pecs worked against him when he needed surgery. He’s all better now but yeah. I dunno where this idea came from.

      • Yeah, despite my war injuries I’m still very strong, which might be why the doctors don’t take me seriously. I asked a neighbor to help me shove my garbage can out to the alley and….I wound up doing it myself. Hurt like hell, but I could still do it. Before I ripped my shoulder, I could do fifty pushups easily. Being short makes that easier, but you’ll never find that out when a certain type of blowhard starts bitching about women in the military.
        Whenever I think of armor, it’s just a brief pause on the way to thinking about the descendants of their mounts, who had to be all sorts of things at ,once: fast and agile but incredibly strong, too. You ever see Ladyhawk? The horse from that movie, Goliath, died recently at the age of about thirty. He was either a pure or half bred Freisian, and his gait showed it. He was a beauty.
        Um, warriors…the thing is, if you wear that armor everyday—which they didn’t—-you do get used to the weight. It’s amazing.
        The special forces guys we lived near and did stuff with were all spare, economical looking guys. If they dressed carefully, they could pass for locals. The Blackwater guys—-most of them ex military, a many of them with really suspicious discharges—–all cultivated the big-and-bulky look, which might look intimidating to the uninitiated but those huge biceps don’t repel bullets. i mean, they were heavily-armed, so who’d do anything at close range of that muscles? So what good did it do? I can see it being a problem with long guns, too, considering how big some of those guys were.
        Armor needs to be well-placed to be effective, and even our flack vests had serious liabilities till they issued the shoulder pads. Why? Because there was no ‘padding’ on the sides, and the shoulder pads actually covered the exterior of the arm to the elbow—-which blocked bullets aimed at the vest’s unarmored sides. We lost a lot of guys who got shot through the side and straight into the heart.
        Flexibility adds a lot of possible range to movement, which adds to the challenge of effectively designing body armor. Depends on the kind of battles you’re fighting. In the Middle East, the people that send us there had no clue at all, so…..

        • True about the warriors. They only donned the armor when it was time for war but I don’t think they practiced in it, which would have helped tremendously. Our technology has come a long way! We can have all that protection but in lighter more flexible materials.

          I saw Ladyhawk and that horse was beautiful! I hadn’t heard he died though.

          Mind those injuries. Next thing you know, you’re in a place of no return. But I’m like you, I’ll just do something my damn self instead of having to ask repeatedly. I have problems with knees and back on occasion because of dance but amazingly no ankle troubles outside of my right one where some arthritis is kicking in. Nothing that is preventing movement but just an annoyance.

  6. I think anyone presenting a clear, present and immediate physical threat (and a repeated unwanted sexual advance after a clear “no” certainly qualifies as that) can legitimately be countered with all necessary force.

    I recall reading “The 2-Second Fight”, and IIRC the suggested trigger in an aggressive situation for launching a pre-emptive attack was a second physical contact with one’s barrier posture, or invasion of the intimate personal space. A person does that twice, it implies their intent to do you harm, so you take them out quickly before they do it to you.

    I feel slightly squicked by the idea of a man decking a woman for hitting on him too insistently. That’s the social programming, I guess, of women as generally “weaker”, and men assumed to be more “up for it” automatically. I am not using my squickedness as a way to judge the right or wrong! I guess the “all necessary force” clause above does hinge on the assessment of what force is “necessary”.

    Besides, one part of my soul deeply insists that if, as the initial aggressor (male or female), you are foolish enough not to take no for an answer from someone who’s bigger and/or stronger than you are, then I say let Darwinian selection take its course…

  7. It wasn’t just hitting on someone. It was sexual battery—-twice. This person clearly committed sexual assault twice, despite clear “no’s” and the victim had a precedent for believing this person would not stop. Also, we’re talking a same gender phenomenon so far. You can’t just switch genders in a hetero situation and think it’s all the same. It’s not.

  8. Roy Kay says:

    Me? I am disincline to hit people in general. Still, when someone is laying hands on me with the intent of intimidating me, I reserve the right to mount a reasonable defense. Being in lousy shape, measured response just ain’t all that practical, so something as heavy duty as I can manage is likely on the agenda.

    That seems to apply here. If someone is obnoxious, and you have tried to back them off, advise the proprietor. If not satisfied, go somewhere else. But once hands are laid on in any abusive fashion, their into personal space, and freely defend yourself. You CAN elect to be non0violent, but you DON’T HAVE TO.

  9. xena says:

    I’d say in this case, the ass-whupping was warranted, Ren. Odds are good that the bitch is bigger than you are.

    I’d say that size and ability matter in a scrap, tho. I don’t fight women under 5’2” and 120lbs, but I would try to throw them if the situation called for it. Luckily, I haven’t been in a situation where those tactics were called for. I would say the same about a bigger, stronger man hitting a small woman. A good hard shove will usually get his point across. If not, he should stop at pinning her, or maybe a light slap. The only time a man should pound anybody smaller and/or less able than he is would be if s/he pulls a weapon for no good reason.

    I’m amazed you didn’t pound the bitch again for ratting you off. What she did was fucking slimy >:-( !!

  10. xena says:

    Well, I guess we won’t be fighting then 🙂 I couldn’t think of a good reason to fight you, even if you were 6′ tall.

    I’m just over 5’6″ in my socks (depending on how poofy my hair is). I look whacked out &scrawny at 135lbs and solid at 155. I’m a good deal heavier than that right now bc of the sleepy dopey munchy winter I had. The only thing I plan on fighting over the next few months will be my rowing machine&weights…and my cheesecake/cookie/ice cream cravings *sigh*

    Then again, I’ve been thinking of taking up Muay Thai if they offer it at the YMCA. I love the way the sport sculpts its fighters’ bodies. I just hope they don’t tell me I’m too old. I don’t want to compete. I just want nice arms&shoulders. And focus, grasshopper 🙂

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