Wait, what?

Posted: June 24, 2011 in Assholes, Blogging, Sex Work, The Hardline According to Ren

Blah blah blah, blah blah blah blah.

So yeah, I went there via Hugo’s to see the wound licking and whining.  I admit it.  Blah blah blah.  Read the comments…so, now, to answer the burning question:  No, I am not Liz.  In fact, I gottta comment from Liz in my pending folder I ain’t yet decided to publish or not, because well, she asked me a lot, and I mean a lot, of personal shit about being a sex worker that stuck me, creepiest freak around, as….creeepy.  Above and beyond the oh so personally violating college question and shit.  AND, well, since according to Rad Fem Legend, I am a completely arrogant, unhinged narcissist and sociopath, if I WAS gonna go “chat” with Meghan, I’d use my own damn screen name, and I am sure I would be moderated, and, actually, I do not go to rad fem blogs and comment unless it’s been said its okay for me to do so: so yeah, that’s like one Rad Fem blog total?  I long ago realized it was fuckin’ futile to try and discuss with these people on their own damn turf-‘ cause ya get gangbanged, the bad kind, with no kiss no lube and no reach around – that is IF you make it outta moderation in tact.  So, no…it’s not me.   Hell Meghan, Liz didn’t even call ya Cupcake, Cupcake and was WAY fuckin’ more polite than I ever woulda been to your pretentious patronizing ass!  So, there you go.

BUT, in case Liz is still reading here: Try this on for some answers-

NO, it is unlikely the two sides can ally to help women who want out of the sex industry out because it is real fuckin’ hard to work with anyone who makes a damn national pastime outta dehumanizing, patronizing and basically being douchebags to you- and that’s what a lotta rad fems DO to sex workers and their advocates.  Even if it is in the name of a better thing or whatever, well, a lot of folk simply will not work with other folk who treat ’em like fuckin’ garbage left in the sun to rot.   Even if this side tries, we get shit on, so, why keep trying?  It’s like smashing yer head into a dashboard repeatedly.

The Reason They Distort and Misuse the Facts is because they will do fuckin’ anything: lie, slander, tap dance, move goal posts, spin, whine, threaten (and I mean the real deal- not that shit Meghan was whining about) and all kinds of shady shit to champion their precious righteousness.  Plain and simple.  They don’t give a fuck about actual facts or bullshit bias in their crap reasearch so long as they can make it or spin it to say what they want…and they will never fuckin’ own up to it cause they are fanatics with a cause and the cause matters more than the actual truth.  Admitting it is bullshit would take guts (lacking), and thinking (lacking), and reconsidering of their tactics (lacking).  See, they won’t just engage and actually answer up to little old meany cursing hot head me- they won’t fuckin’ do it with anyone.

So, there ya go, Liz.  Hope yer satisfied.





  1. rootietoot says:

    This is why I don’t deal with them. It’s why, when I’m doing *anything* To Make The World A Better Place, I do it on my own terms, by myself. Committees suck, and committees of people who think they know exactly what to do to help The Poor and Downtrodden suck even more.

    • cheshbitten says:

      You also, according to some of the commentors are hexy, which is odd, cause I meet hexy and while you both kick arse, well, there where a couple of differences, half a world for a start.

      • Ren says:

        and shes half a foot (at least) taller than me, and spells stuff different from me, and has a different accent, and her own blog and…


  2. Liz XIan says:

    You really are a nasty person. If you don’t want to answer the questions I asked you fine. But if you don’t answer questions then why expect people to answer yours? I can see why the radical feminists dislike you so much and it is not just because you disagree with them. You are rude and intentionally mean.

    • rootietoot says:

      You know, it’s interesting that you should say this. I’ve known Ren Ev via internet for going on 6 years now. She and I are about as opposite as 2 people could be. I disagree with her on many things, and we have discussed these things. Yet, I have never been treated with anything but courtesy from her, even while disagreeing. I wonder why that is? Perhaps it’s because the first few times we argued, it started out with civility. I treated her as tho her opinion had value, and she did the same with me. We have often “agreed to disagree” and gone on to something else. Perhaps it’s not the disagreement that pisses her off, but the obnoxiously condescending attitude with which her differing viewpoints are treated right from the beginning of the discussion…oh wait, I think that’s almost precisely what she said…

      • Ren says:

        ” She and I are about as opposite as 2 people could be. ”

        well, except that shit we got in common, like guns and politics and food.

        • rootietoot says:

          What?! Are you saying you’re not All Porn All The Time?! Do you mean that there’s more to you than that?? But what about Stereotypes?? Don’t be ruining my stereotype! it’s the only way I know how to relate!!…oh wait..that’s not me…that’s other people.

          • Ren says:

            well, apparently according to Cupcake Meghan , I am scary AND Childish, and well, either hallucinted being in debates or hallucintaed doing well in them….which is funny, as I have the college news papers and commentary from people who hosted/sponsored those debates saying I Did Good an was Even Nice and Everything.

            Now, scary, I get. I can be kinda scary, I admit that. I am not ashamed of it either. Scary ain’t bad IMHO. CHildish though? I mean, Correct Me if I am Wrong, but i was not the one who did all the whining then in essence did the ” she was meeeeeaaaan, nany nany I can’t hear you/ I am packing up my toys and going home!” horseshit? SO yeah, pot , kettle, black, there.

            Hell her meltdown about me asking about her college education practically screamed junior high drama, and shes what? 31 I guess? Uhhh, yeah.

            • rootietoot says:

              Well, I’ve often compared the whole radfem emotionalism to 7th grade (only with a better vocabulary). Every time a debate happens I expect *at least* 9th grade, but no…it’s still 7th grade. Sigh.

    • Why is she “nasty”? YOU are the one picking a fight. Excuse me, “asking questions”–right.

      People pick fights, they get em, then they cry, boo hoo. I have never understood the dynamic, nor the lack of awareness of one’s actions: they will swear they are the well-mannered ones, all while copping an attitude and expecting explanations from someone they don’t even know.

      I guess since they are the good girls in this discussion, and Ren is the bad girl, its obvious who must be the “nasty person”:, right?

      Sometimes I think Walt fucking Disney scripted this shit.

    • Ren says:

      A ha! You are baiting me! ANd it is obvious, thing is, I cannot pass up a piece of raw meat thrown to me even if I KNOW there is a freakin’ hook in it, so, I will answer some of the questions you asked me….but first…..

      “You really are a mean and nasty person” You know what? Sure enough I can TRULY be a nasty piece of work and I admit it freely, might even lean towards it as a default setting…but, I sure as HELL am a mean and nasty person when people are arrogant lyin’ goddamn jackwagons towards me. Then there is no chance of me even trying to be nice, so keep that shit in mind.

      So now, some of your questions from the dang comment I am not gonna approve cause I think it was freakin’ creepy and when say that shit, I ain’t jokin’ around.

      My educational history: Yeah, I went to college, yeah, I got a degree (two of ’em in fact, histoy and theater), got some scholarship money and the rest I paid for. I worked in school, during the summers, and yep, still got loans from hell. So, two BA’s and that is the extent of my degree having.

      Now, onto shit that ain’t none of your business really and some of which I have discussed before:

      My background: White, female, blue collar/lower working class, two parent home, no history of CSA or other abuse. Did spend a lot of time on my own thou as both my parents had to work for a living. Neither have college degrees, my mom has a dimploma, my dad is a highschool drop out who eventually got a GED. My dad is a recovering gambling addict. I have one older bro, and no, aside from the occasional screaming match or barn burner of a fight, he did not do jack to me either. I was a poor student until jr. high or so and did skate by on atheltic talent to some degree until college. However, I did graduate college with a 3.8 gpa..and those two degrees, in four years. Because I busted my fuckin’ ass. I am the first person in my family (and not just my immediate family, but my entire known family living in the United States) to go to and finish college. Others have since then though. No, I have never been raped or beat up by a dude- on or off the job.

      My personal life: Well, one, that is personal, but yeah, I am married. Yes, he knows what I do for a living and is okay with it. My parents know aspects of what I do for a living and we do not talk about it. I have been outed, and I have been threatened with outting. That is all you are gonna get on that one, cupcake.

      My history with drugs: Currently, I am on prescribed pain killers for a fucked up back, and was previously on them for a serious burn on my neck. chest, and lower half of my face. I like Jack Daniels and occassionally drink more of it than I should, but since I freakin hate hangovers, it doesnt happen often. I have tried a lot of drugs in my day, mostly during college and right after, and still to this day enjoy some speed once in a long while. I never felt the need to use drugs while work or in order to work, and did not use them while working.

      What aspects of the sex industry have I been involved in: stripping, porn, pro-bdsm, nude modelling, web cam work, erotic art creation, and yep, good old fashioned screwing for money. My favorite is porn, my least favorite was web cam (boring!). I am currently only doing porn now, and not often (due to being ,well, not well physcially) and very occasional pro domme. I am currently 39, and started off in the biz as a stripper to help pay for college. I have had and done other jobs as well.

      On the Activism front: I have worked with SWOP east and Hips in the past and am still afilated with Swop East. Due to various reasons from my health to burn out, I have stepped back with both activism and even blogging about sex industry stuff. I’ve spoken at three different universities about sex work and porn. I did indeed debate Robert Jensen, In MN. I do have friends who I consider to be radical feminists. I’ve had stuff I’ve written / been interviewed for sex worker publications here in the US, as well as Down Under, and I have blogged on sex work and other issues at Feministe. I have attended a few sex worker marches and events and those who are open too/ non-hostile to sex workers.

      My attitude: I do not actually think any radical feminist who claims otherwise honestly fears me physcially or that I would actually do violence to them, but it is a great cop out. The only time I ever actually threatend someone was after they had actually threatened me first. And yes, I do think I could, with fact and proof, trash pretty much any typical rad fem argument wrt to sex work and porn.

      And yes, I am a very angry person with rage issues.

      NOW, the rest of the shit you asked me was Not Okay and Not Your Business. BUT, you did ask if I ever Feel Guilty about putting an unrealistic image of women there- looks wise- wrt to porn and such. So, my answer:

      Okay, I have had two cosmetic surgeries ever: my rack is fake, and then one on my neck to reduce my burn scars. And Liz? Uh, I am not a super model. I am a short wiry gal with no hps, crooked teeth, and one hell of a scar. Do I have thin privilege and acknowledge that? Yes. But do I feel BAD about putting an image (namely mine) out there? No, I don’t. At all.

      So, there ya go, kid.

  3. Meghan: My personal life and/or finances and/or past experiences with abuse and/or personal relationships with men are absolutely none of your business.

    But Ren’s are YOUR business… do you see? You tell her how she feels about her own job/life, so we do the same right back to you. How do you like it? Sauce for the goose. etc.

    It IS classism, Ren, when they can talk about your life and be insulting and patronizing as hell, but when we come back at them with the same treatment, we are Mean and It’s None of Your Business.

    What’s amusing is that “It’s none of your business” was the initial male response when feminists started criticizing porn and prostution in the first place. And now she uses privacy arguments on other feminists!

    Note from old school radical: Everything is everyone’s business because we all live together on Planet Earth. If its none of my business how you make your money, then its none of your business how Ren makes hers. If it is, then it is.

    As I once told Heart: You don’t get to sit out the Inquisition that you have started, that’s how Inquisitions work.

    • Ren says:

      Daisy, a thing I have always found grimly amusing. Okay, Rad Fems care about the women in the sex industry SO LONG as they remain, like, well, this detatched group of women who are different and not…actual people. Then, when confronted by one, they are either a Bad Individual or…well, akin to a lab rat,a subject to study and poke and get data from, but NOT a creature deserving of privacy or capable of independent thought, action or shesh, with feelings like OTHER real people.

      Kinda funny when you think about How Much They Say They Care and Are Concerned!

  4. so yeah, that’s like one Rad Fem blog total?

    Me or Joan? LOL– hey, that’s TWO okay? 🙂

  5. polly says:

    You are rude and intentionally mean

    That’s why I like you!

  6. polly says:

    PS I have no idea what all this is about.

  7. Ren says:

    some post over at hugos I got ranty on.

  8. rootietoot says:

    Ok so i just read that whole thread (gimme a cookie…or maybe a stiff drink) and other than the one time you kind of got a little crude (but for pete’s sake it’s YOU), I didn’t see an issue. It all seemed just “humph, you hurt my feewing so I’ma ignore you.” I read NOTHING substantive by Meghan. Over on her page, not much there either but it’s her place and she can say what she likes. God knows I don’t say anything substantive on mine, so who am I to judge?

  9. kingschwarz says:

    Ren is a meanie
    Says the Cupcake in the beanie,
    Never at my college
    Am I so unpleasantly acknowledged.
    Ooh and she’s rude too,
    Won’t say if she eats Moo Shu
    Votes Democrat or Republican,
    Adds inquisitive Liz XIan.
    Polly and Rootietoot and Daisy
    Reply that both of you are crazy,
    And you really get our dander
    When you sauce the goose but not the gander.

    (On the planet Krypton, my name would be Dogg Er-El.)

  10. Jeremy says:

    Hi Ren,

    I am an old fan but I have not been following you for some time. I don’t know if this is the right place for this but a few years back on your pervious blog you wrote an article called “The Difference” which clearly and humorously laid the difference between the pro-sex worker activists and the rad fem positions on various issues. I use to have it bookmarked on my old computer that died a year ago. I have not been able to find it in years because I think your old space was taken down. Could you republish? I think was brilliant peice of writing and one that I would use as a talking point with friends if the issue came up. Also your back ground as a sex worker gave it more moral legitamacy than it would have if someone else wrote it.

  11. Jeremy says:

    Thank you!

  12. Roy Kay says:

    Here’s another helpful question: “Have you stopped helping The Patriarchy(R) beat his wife yet?”

    That’s about the size of a standard RadFem question.

  13. Beste says:

    Just reading up on all that shit gave me a headache. I swear some of the comments disappeared from Meghan blog.

    I suspect that Liz XIan is Meghan Murhpy

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