‘Cause no one puts Daisy in a Corner!

Posted: April 21, 2011 in Assholes, Blogging, Morons, WTF???

Urggh.  So..um…yeah.  Check this shit.

See, so now it is time for Cracker to the Rescue, you know, to Save the White Woman and all, cause you know thats how us crackers roll.  (rolls eyes)…

Now that I’ve stated the snarked on version of what MAY get said because I, hick white chick, am choosing to address this and defend Daisy, another hick white chick…well, I am gonna do just that.

One:  When, where, how, who, Whiskey Tango Foxtrot did calling someone a “hippy” become an insult?  Last time I checked, calling someone a hippy was not oh, akin to calling someone a dick or asshole or some racial slur…esp. when a self described hippy is speaking about a fellow hippy, oh, in the era of hippies?  There is nothing particularly wrong with being a hippy…it is not a horrible thing…and well, folk who jumped all over her for calling a dang hippy a hippy? Um, yeah, obviously folk with too much goddamn time on their hands which they obviously use FINDING stupid shit to get pissed off/offended about.  Hey, Daisy, yer a fuckin’ Hippy!  Wooo, horrible of me, ain’t it? 

Two:  You know what I love?  When white folk storm in yelling at other freakin’ white folk who are talking about their own experiences in dealing with racism and tell ’em they are doing it wrong and are shitty allies to people of color…’cause you know, the whining white folk are obviously better at….what?  Doing all the same shit they accuse Daisy of doing/being?  Ah-ha!  That must be it!    I mean, I guess there are white ladies, and super awesome special bestest of the best ally white ladies, and well, they gotta tell Daisy how it’s done PROPER!  Snerk.  I love it when folk do the exact same shit they take other folk to task for doing….

Three:  Hey, Daisy, you Hippy…how DARE you write a post in a way that is NOT the way Other People (esp White Ones) THINK you shoulda done it?  The freakin’ nerve, woman, actually putting things in your own words and speaking from your own experiences and not doing it the way other people think you shoulda…how dare you?  I mean, what were you thinking, talking about actual lived experiences and shit rather than theory and academic solution and how you shoulda done it better and the way other folk think you should’ve?  It’s not like shit like, oh, actually having been there and done that means shit, you know…esp. when the REALLY special white ladies say so….

Snerk…what a goddamn cluster fuck…guess that will learn ya Daisy when it comes to writing stuff you thought folk might find interesting or useful…how dare you….

then again, fuck ’em…cause even if you ARE doing it right, there is gonna be some nit-picky moron who is gonna tell you that you’re doing it wrong…but hell, doesn’t mean they’re right really now, does it?


Man some people deserve a trip to the woodshed.

  1. rootietoot says:

    The whole Daisy thing bemused me. I mean…anyone who has ever read her knows she’s a card-carrying protest-making organically grown all American HIPPY. With a heart of gold who isn’t afraid to say what she thinks but is still nice as pie. She reminds me of my aunt Markie, they’re about the same age, both wear Hippy braids and look a little grandma-ish and share similar opinions on life, the universe and everything…who wouldn’t like that? Like you said, some people have too much time on their hands, and I’d add not enough brains in their heads.

    • Fierceawakening says:

      I think part of the issue is that some people go around sniffing for others’ mistakes. People who do that are not generally the type to pay close attention to others’ backgrounds or experiences enough to know the full context of what that person is describing. Looking for gotchas is easy; getting to know people is hard.

  2. ….wow.

    Yeah, this kind of thing would be why I don’t hang in “feminist space” any more. When people can’t even tell a story from their own life without being c-c-c-c-c-called OUT!, there’s absolutely no potential for growth.

    The stuff that happens in life is messy and not binary. Not every interaction we have is politically perfect, and not every experience that gives us solace or recharges our batteries or, yes, saves us from violence has clear Heroes and Villains as defined by the social justice movement of the moment.


    • Also, what’s so horrible about describing someone who’s part of a culture you’re in in a negative way?

      If I wrote a post and was like “so, I was at a club, and Loud Pasty Dumbinant walked by and I cringed, but then he did something kind of awesome” would people be jumping on me for “dumbinant” because I didn’t know him as a person first?

      Despite that I’d probably LOL until the end of time if someone took to calling me one?

      • Fierceawakening says:

        Also, is anyone else bothered by the evasive response Mary made to Daisy’s “how old are you?” It sounds an awful lot like a white person going “You can’t see me through the computer! How do you know I’m white?!?!” If Mary’s the same age as Daisy, surely it’s no skin off her back to say “I was 18 back then” or whatever. It just reads as a gross CYA move.

        If not, and she is my age but feels she has valid reasons to argue against the ageism charge, why does she? And why does she feel she shouldn’t just “stfu&l” and “deconstruct herself?”

        • Ren says:

          Mary has too much time on her hands I think

          • Fierceawakening says:

            Yep. I’m blackly amused by how creepy “deconstruct yourself” sounds. It makes me want to see a sci-fi horror movie where the baddie’s MO is to recreate/reconfigure people in ways s/he thinks are improvements to imperfect flesh, but the twist is s/he forces you to do it to yourself in accordance with hir will.

      • Ren says:

        Kinda like me calling me and daisy both hicks ….

    • Ren says:

      Im totally a clear cut villain

    • RVCBard says:

      Yeah, this kind of thing would be why I don’t hang in “feminist space” any more. When people can’t even tell a story from their own life without being c-c-c-c-c-called OUT!, there’s absolutely no potential for growth.


      • Yeah. I mean, i do think in some cases that politely saying something like (if I even understand the critique correctly at all) “Uh, I get that you were trying to help the Black protesters, but maybe they actually wanted to be filmed. I got the impression from your story that you decided what to do without asking them. I’m glad you wanted to help protect them from harm, but I’m a little uneasy about that. Sometimes white people play Rescuer, and your post gave me that vibe. Do you know how those protesters felt about you doing that?” would be worth doing.

        But the whole thing whereby people shriek endlessly about how “intent doesn’t matter” and THEN get angry at their allies for being silent too often just… strikes me as a “you can’t have your cake and eat it too” thing. If you jump all over people and are impolite (because someone asking you to be polite, heaven forbid, is “the tone argument”) with people who are trying to help you, only those with the patience of saints will continue to help you.

        • But see, I never said “protect”–these terms are the terms that were ASSIGNED to my narrative. This is what pissed me off, all these values/motives that got ASSIGNED to what I wrote. (sigh)

          • Thing is, I’m not saying the critique is right. I’m saying that if people feel, reading your post about what happened, that it sounded like you were being overbearing (which they have no way to know, not having been there), there are ways to say “I read this and was uneasy” that are about honest discussions of feelings/opinions, and then there are ways that really seem like the point is less “I feel you did something hurtful” and more “I get to call someone o-o-out! I get to call someone o-o-out!!! *malicious gleeface*”

  3. Yall are just so sweet to me. (((sniff)))

    Thank you Ren, how nice is this post!? I fear the hick white chick faction will just be ignored though!

    A lot of these people seemed to be kids (deliberately ageist term),very intent on impressing their friends. (The tumblr blogs were on fire with news of my offenses!) I get that, but I don’t like them stepping all over my corpse to do it!

    One reason I think they’re kids? Well, where do they get the time for all this? I know I didn’t even have to read it all, much less write it.

  4. EEEP, I think those links went to moderation, Ren.

  5. Erik Schwarz says:

    Daisy has done a fine job of defending herself, and her friends have risen to the occasion as well. I would like to raise an ancillary question: how did lodging a charge of “privilege” become a dispositive argument? A great deal of virtual ink seems to have been spilled in charges and countercharges about who is more privileged than whom. Where does this line of argumentation lead? Online access is a kind of privilege, one denied to many in the developing world and to some in affluent societies. So should all of us just dry up in deference to this reality? Education is a privilege too, as is good health, intellectual acuity, youthful energy, the wisdom of age and any number of other “goods.” Why do these or other privileges invalidate what their possessors say or think? (Not that awareness of class and other disparities should not condition our understanding of self and society.) Is the lack of advantages now the highest privilege of all, trumping all others? And if so, do we get to shout down the most unfortunate and disadvantaged among us for owning that high privilege? Just asking…

    • Ren says:

      Erik, IMHO, 99% of the time they DON’T invalidate anything…screaming “oh you are just soooo priviledged” is a last ditch attempt to shut someone up or shame them because whomever is screaming it has no fuckin’ leg to stand on and could not field a decent argument with a Harvard think-tank backing them up. Its an almost Godwin’s Law hail Mary pass if you ask me.

      And soooo many residents of Netganistan are just SOOO sure that everyone else out there is somehow more priviledged than they are…which is often not the case. I mean, I find it amusing when some PhD having person who got that fine education of Mom and Dad’s dime and has no student loans and a nice place to live and is just as white and thin as I am or whatever assumes that I MUST be in the same boat they are….and thats the thing with the net….you can never truly know who is speaking from a place of actual knowledge or experience and who is just blowing smoke out their ass….well, cept for me, anyone with this many tattoos and a mudflap girl belt with a Jack Daniels buckle and a bunch of Nascar hats has GOT to be a cracker lol.

      • Fierceawakening says:

        The thing about privilege is that no one really has all of it. I have white privilege, but a Black woman I converse with may have privilege as a nondisabled person. The only useful conversations about it acknowledge that everyone has hir own unique standpoint and that no one is Big Baddie (unless that means someone is a big badASS.)

        • Erik Schwarz says:

          Fierce, I think you are quite right: privilege, like agency, is something in which we all own shares. Though some own far more shares than others. The Big Baddies out there, I submit, are those with the power to enforce not only their standpoints but also their interests to the manifest detriment of others. For instance the Justice Department — oops, did I say that?! I certainly did not mean to…

          • Oh, I agree. But these days, I tend to think it’s less of an individual thing and more of a group thing. As in, I don’t care as much that Mike has male privilege and white privilege as I care that, say, Mike is part of a powerful lobby that is invested in political/social goals that will harm those who are not male and white.

            If Mike is privileged over others in many, many ways, his individual privileges may add up to something that makes even one-on-one interactions problematic or deeply dangerous. And in some situations, yeah, even a little privilege can make a one-on-one meeting a danger. But over the Internet, I care less that, say, I’m guessing you, Eric Schwarz, are a white dude, than I care about what social standing you do or don’t have in your communities and how you use it.

            • Erik Schwarz says:

              Yes, it is more of a group thing. Socioeconomic structures and power elites. As for whiteness, mine or anyone else’s, that is a construct, isn’t it? I recommend “The History of White People” by Nell Irvin Painter, who has written an acute study of how the constructing has been done across a wide sweep of history. I myself “read” as white, but at least one of my grandparents, and possibly two, was nonwhite. Creole identity is a subject best left for another day and another post.

      • Erik Schwarz says:

        Yes, I have noticed that much of the yowling about privilege does come from the more privileged quarters of our society. The truly underprivileged are often less interested in decrying privileges than in securing some for themselves. (This does not mean that the poor are not committed to justice but rather that they require real results not endless complaint.) Am I right in detecting something infantile in the yowling of the affluent? You point out the unseriousness of their arguments and the lack of perspective about their actual social position. Reminds me of my grandkids (ages 1-3) at their worst, when they just cannot stand that their sibs have hold of something they want. Does not matter that G1 has in hand red, green and yellow balloons: it is just totally unfair that G2 has a blue one, and screaming is the apposite response.

        • Yeah, I think you’re right. I know a lot of poor people, given what I do… and yes, “poor people can use the library,” mm-hmm. And yes, the assumption that poor people wouldn’t is offensive and sterotypical?

          But… y’know what? It’s also true that… not many of those I’ve met, regardless of race, gender, disability, whatever, do.

          It may be an age contributing to digital divide thing, so I could be wrong here… but I sometimes really, really doubt that most of these people aren’t affluent.

          What percentage of not-affluent people are 1) tech savvy AND 2) interested in issues of social justice AND 3) interested in feminist theory, disability theory, critical race theory?


          I’m all over disability theory in various ways. But the people I help? They need a housing voucher and food stamps more than they need theoretical discussions of the social model.

          • Eep, I lost a sentence in there somewhere. I was saying that I didn’t think the people we argue with ONLINE are not affluent. I meant “yeah, poor people can use THE INTERNET IN the library, but from the folks I know not too many do,” not “they never use libraries.”

            • Erik Schwarz says:

              My work in New Orleans involves poor communities, and the public library, particularly its Black History Committee, has been a partner, so I have some apposite on-the-ground experience. Poor people here do indeed use libraries and can access the internet, but it is not easy. First of all, many neighborhoods are without libraries and second, public transportation is spotty and unreliable. Third, not all libraries have computer stations and fourth, those that do may not have enough to meet demand. These are substantive if not prohibitive barriers. Having said this, I should add that poor folks here lead incomparably better lives than the poor in developing nations – where my work has also taken me. There the daily struggle is for the basics of survival, and online access is about as relevant and as likely as a week on a yacht or a diamond tiara.

              • My experience may be filtered through particular subgroups. For example, the people I work with usually have disabilities (many are on SSI, some on SSDI) have tended to be middle aged. If they have kids (a lot don’t, or have adult kids they’re not living with), their kids, though also quite poor, may have more computer comfort/experience.

                Most of them, when asked “do you have an email address,” wince and answer “I don’t know this computer stuff. Can you help me to get training? I need to learn that Microsoft Word.” They don’t really even know what “that Microsoft Word” is, they just know that if they look for jobs (which they need to do, as they can’t live on SSI checks) they’re supposed to compete with people with college degrees, and those people “know that Microsoft Word.”

                A couple of people have email addresses and know how to check email in the library, but when I have, in the past, asked them if they will do this, they tell me something like you say here — wide-eyed “Lady, you expect me to go to the library just so I can get the stuff you wanna send me?!?” So I don’t even tend to ask.

                I know my experiences are anecdata, but I think of them when people talk about any of these types of theory as if everyone understands them.

                Given that digital divide I see every day, it just seems vanishingly likely that most people who aren’t affluent 1) have Internet access 2) use it often enough to come across these discussions 3) feel that the concepts of “privilege,” “derailing,” “prejudice + power,” etc. that we’re using all accurately capture their experience and their understanding of it and 4) would find “calling out” of the type we’re seeing here to be something important enough to be worth doing.

                Which is not to say that I doubt that some of the people posting/having these blogs aren’t affluent. It’s just to say that if you aren’t and you’re having these discussions, you’ve probably had some experience or maybe even some advantage (like being one of the really bright kids in school, say) that it seems to me from what I’ve seen that most people probably have not.

                • Also, some of the folks I know have activisty personalities and will do stuff like go to meetings in their county and talk about the experiences of poor people, of homeless people if they are, of having disabilities that prevent them from working professional jobs @ 40 hr/week, etc. But many people are not that type.

                  And I think discussions like this are disproportionately full of activisty types and also theory nerds of various sorts. I think it’s easy for people (and I include myself in this, as I used to be very into feminist theory and disability theory and also paid close attention to critical race theory, though I admit I struggled to understand some of it) to forget that their social circle isn’t necessarily representative of the larger world. It’s okay to have cultural norms about what “derailing” is, say, but that doesn’t necessarily mean they’re understood by, or even necessarily true in, the world at large.

                  Hence my comment that I strongly suspect a lot of people I’ve met, including POCs, would be like “Wait, I’m supposed to care about that? I need an apartment and a job.”

          • Xena says:

            That is SO true. Trailer park intelligentsia like myself are extremely rare, even in Canada and the UK, where our student loans programs are tolerable (not great–tolerable).

            Out of the 50% non-immigrant population in the 40 bed shelter I live in, only 6 women said they wanted to get registered with Elections Canada for our Federal election in May. And 3 of them asked me to teach them about our political system. That’s the #1 reason for our low voter turnout here. People just don’t understand what our politics are about, which demonstrates an extreme lack of opportunity in education for the poor. The problem isn’t money. It’s prejudice. It’s what Dr. Robert Rosenthal called “The Pygmalion Effect” in education. Students live down to the expectations of their teachers.

            So yes, the vast majority of people debating social justice issues online are not the people most in need of it. And the vast majority of people using the internet in this shelter are watching Youtube and listening to music, not debating post colonial theory, though many of them are displaced Africans, Eastern Europeans, sons&daughters of our First Nations, etc.

  6. Xena says:

    OMG Angie go to bed is about right. I’d put the girl at no more than 20 or 21. And I highly doubt she’s an American, going on like that about issues of ‘race’ (I use the scare quotes because of my anthro background–the term is a fallacy).
    When a lovely black lady in PA helped me out on one of my cross country tours, she actually seemed grateful that I recognized her humanity by sitting down at her dinner table and eating and thanking her for the food she offered. Some white Americans wouldn’t even eat food prepared by a black woman. That’s how fucking awful the racism is in some places. (I was SHOCKED! Really. SHE rescued me! And SHE was grateful!) Little Angie just doesn’t grasp that. I’m sure your flag burning friends were happy to see you risk so much for them. Racism was even worse back then. You might have been gang raped by a whole crew of Good Ol’ Boys for what you did, Daisy. We old folks appreciate that.

    Don’t even get me started on the child’s misconceptions about homeless people!! That was the worst red herring/slippery slope/and-I-don’t-even-want-to-waste-time-counting-all-the-other-crappy-arguments argument I’ve seen in months. She must spend half her free time arguing with MRAs.

    I for one am kinda glad she’s so green about the hippie tunes. I shudder to think what she might have said about your youtube clip of the man who released such mouldy goldies as Dynamo Hum and Bobby Brown 😛

  7. Xena says:

    Bah! The child IS American. I can tell by the way she spells “savior”. She must live and work in some fucking affluent 21st century Utopia to see ‘race relations’ as an academic curiosity.

  8. Xena, I vetted it for sexism… do you know HOW HARD (pardon terminology) it is to find a non-sexist Frank Zappa song? 😛 There are numerous nasty jokes in EVERY LIVE SHOW, LOL… when I heard the line “Ain’t this boogie a mess?” I was reading that thread, and it was so perfect, I laughed my ass off. THAT’S IT, I thought.

    My commenters seemed to think Mary was a concern troll, and I concur. And I admit, I totally fell for that one.

    Angie is the one who made the Pokemon reference, and I very nearly asked what she meant by that. (I guess the characters just “appear” or something?) She said the hippie appeared “like a Pokemon character” and I wanted to ask her, didya catch my AGE? Pokemon is something I know nothing about! LOL (I wonder what they would have said if I had?)

    I really didn’t understand all the hostility from people who don’t even know me (i.e. no long-standing grudges that I know of!). It’s like, I’m angry, therefore I am. And the tumblr thing, where it’s either like/dislike (no other choices), doesn’t leave much room for complexity or discussion, now does it? I’ve never seen so many righteously indignant people in my life!

    This is actually more like the discussion I wanted to have over at Womanist Musings!!! Erik and Fierce, I also enjoyed your comments.

    • Xena says:

      Damn straight, Daisy. Kids these days…Don’t know RL from Pokemon. AS IF you’re Agent Smith and they’re all Trinity wasserface or something. Sheesh. My daughter was into Pokemon when she was 8. So was my son.

      That would put Miss Angie closer to about 18, just like Mr. Wounded Masculinity, James. BORN IN 1993?!?! Sorry, kid. You can’t be an MRA until you’re capable of growing facial hair.

      I just had a terrifing thought. Whatever will we do when all the hippies are gone?

  9. Xena says:

    Oops. Typo. That was terrifying. The thought, not the typo. Really terrifying.

    • Erik Schwarz says:

      Well, a few of us old first-wave punk rockers will still be around. Guess it will be our turn to be wise old souls. Unfortunately safety pins will no longer be costume jewelry – they will be cinching our diapers.

  10. “Now, the Sex Pistols–that was REAL MUSIC!” 😀 (I happen to be serious about that)

    Erik, teach them, please, that the govt, the news media, even the internet, etc is not to be trusted… they seem to have lost that message and yall just put it out there SO WELL!

    • Erik Schwarz says:

      The Pistols were great. “Don’t know what I want but I know how to get it:” Shakespeare for our times. Recently watched Alex Cox’s “Sid and Nancy” again. It wears quite well. So many undying lines, e.g. “What about the farewell drugs?” But to end the nostalgic wallow and hie ourselves into the current millennium: yes, in New Orleans we learned the hard way not to trust the government, the media, the insurance companies and the rest. We paid our taxes and our premiums and gave them our money and bought into their mishegas for all those years but when the going got rough we found that we had only ourselves, our neighbors and our communities to rely upon. The good news is that DIY worked pretty well. A lot of New Orleanians now believe that we really could downsize the system without any adverse impact – and possibly a positive one – on our collective security.

  11. Idiocracy says:

    That’s a huge response to reference to a woman just behaving like a normal human being. Which suggests to me that the USA really is a ‘different world’ where what we Europeans take for granted comes across as bizarre as in Iran or China.

    I admit that I don’t fully understand what Daisy was saying – some prat was shouting at her and a hippy-looking man got in between and scared him off?

    So what? If that happened round here, the woman would either ignore it or confront the pest and very likely deck him one. What’s the problem? And why is it only a problem for women, when men get kids of either sex being offensive just as much? Who hasn’t had drunks shouting for sex and knows perfectly well that if it’s males shouting at females, they’d call any taker ‘whore’ and females any taker ‘pervert’? That’s just dickheads.

    • Admittedly, I don’t know what a “prat” is, but I don’t think the guy in question qualifies. This was a menacing person who followed/stalked me for over a city mile.

      Can I simply ask: are you female? If so, you know this happens all the time, but some people have a threatening edge. For example, most men would give up after a few attempts at getting a woman’s attention, but my ignoring him seemed to just make him more angry and determined. As a woman, of course, you have dealt with that kind of person and know what I mean.

      If you aren’t a woman, you really don’t have any idea what it’s like to be hunted, do you? When was the last time you were prey on a city street?

      So what? If that happened round here, the woman would either ignore it or confront the pest and very likely deck him one.

      On her way to work? Really? Because that gets your work clothes dirty, your hair messed up and makes you late. It’s still harassment and interference. You get that, right?

      We know how often women deck men, happens all the time!

      What’s the problem?

      Do you have a wife, girlfriend or daughter? What do you think of creepy men following them and harassing them? No problem for you? You don’t care if they are scared or unnerved by a possible serial killer or rapist? I guess if you can’t understand that, I can’t explain it to you. (How many times have you been raped? Attempted rape? If the answer is ZERO, again, you don’t know what I am talking about.)

      And why is it only a problem for women, when men get kids of either sex being offensive just as much?

      Who said it was only a problem for women?

      Reading comprehension = a good thing.

      Men are usually stronger than women and can more easily hurt them. Maybe you’ve heard? Thus, women getting stalked by men is more scary than women stalking men, for the most part.

      Who hasn’t had drunks shouting for sex and knows perfectly well that if it’s males shouting at females, they’d call any taker ‘whore’ and females any taker ‘pervert’? That’s just dickheads.

      Oh, well, sorry I wrote about it then! YOU KNOW EVERYTHING, don’t you?

      Dickheads, indeed.

    • Xena says:

      The difference is that obnoxious American teenagers and creeps often carry handguns or assault rifles. Ask any gamer or libertarian about the nastier meanings of the word “teabagging”.

    • Fierceawakening says:

      If you have no experience with the kind of interaction someone is talking about, you might want to consider not running your mouth off. Or think about situations in which you’ve felt threatened. Did you ALWAYS keep your head and “deck him one,” even when he looked a lot bigger and stronger and angrier than you? Even when he kept coming, despite you being weirded out by his creepy focus on you, when you didn’t know him from Adam?

      Even if your answer’s yes, it’s still a bit unrealistic to expect everyone to always keep their head, such that you’re justified in chiding them.

    • Ren says:

      even if a gal is of the mind to swing on a dude here…um hey, UK dude…folk here have GUNS. They don’t barefist it out…they fucking SHOOT each other…

      And I fucking LOVE how a dude is like “just deck him”… You know, I HAVE punched men before…but really, COME ON….there IS a size/weight/strength difference between men and women on the whole here…

      Yer not really THAT stupid are you?

  12. Xena says:

    Better yet, check out Michael Moore’s Bowling For Colombine.

  13. Clarence says:

    Well, as a man I’ve been *Gasp* followed on the street for over two blocks and harrassed for money.

    I’ve been randomly punched twice, once by a member of a group of black youths so it might have been racial as I am white, and once by a mixed group. Maybe they were “initiations” of the less violent type, who knows? And I’ve been held up at gun point and robbed one time when I was 25 or 26.

    I’m so glad to know that men never have anything to fear when they walk on city streets. Thanks for setting me straight!

    • Ren says:

      Clarence: I will be the first person to say that ANYONE AND EVERYONE has something to fear walking on city streets. Heck, I been followed and hit in the head with a brick and in a few serious screaming matches and all that good stuff….facing danger in a city or anywhere else is not a uniquely male or female thing, it can happen to anyone. But there IS a specific crime women are more frequently subject to than men, and we generally ARE smaller and all and a great many women have No Idea Whatsoever how to defend themselves in anyway (we are not encouraged to learn by in large) so I DO think it is unfair to make light of our general nervouseness, thanks.

  14. Clarence says:


    *I* never made light of anyone’s nervousness, and I’ll say Daisy’s response to the original poster was over the top with her crap about not knowing what it was like to be “hunted” and stuff.

    There’s a tremendous difference between the vast majority of leering and catcalling and the more extreme stuff like from Holla Back New York and I’ll be the first to say it sucks that women have to fear sexual assault far more than men in most places that aren’t filled with steel bars. But men have to fear walking out on the street and DYING far more than women, and really it’s kind of obnoxious to only look at it from the standpoint of one sex or the other.

    • Ren says:

      see my above statement: EVERYONE has to worry about it, and when being followed or any other such thing, I am not sure anyones FEELINGS in the time can be considered over the top. I tend to think that a great many men walk where they want for the most part with less FEAR than women…is it warranted? I do not know, men do seem to be mugged more often and the victims of random violent crime more often.

      Be that as it may: Turn on your Television. 99% of the media TELLS women we should fear, 99% of the shows on television, fiction or real crime or the news or whatever, are women getting killed, stalked, raped, kidnapped, so on, so it gets to a point, realistic or not, that women FEAR….and when everything is telling them they should, you know what? Not gonna blame em.

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