Does it ever fucking stop?

Posted: March 3, 2011 in WTF???

So, I was over looking and Joan’s blog and it seems some person, a person I do not even know, is being lied about, threatened, outed, and otherwise wolf-packed by other people on line because, well, she has opinions different from those people.  Yes, I realize wars are still being fought today over that kind of thing, but as a person who has, oh, been lied about, threatened with outing and had shit dug up on them by a wolf-packing group of mother fucking assholes (why yes, you idiots, I am WBW and shit!) I gotta say WHEN DOES IT FUCKING STOP AND WHEN DO PEOPLE GROW THE FUCK UP AND REALIZE OTHER PEOPLE ARE GONNA DISAGREE WITH THEM, SAY SHIT THEY DON’T LIKE, BE HARSH OR CAUSTIC and that does not give you the fucking right to endanger them?  HOW FUCKING BASIC IS THAT?

And you know what?  That sorta shit inspires reactionary violence and vitrol.  What do people do when they are threatened or harmed?  Well, a lot of them fight the fuck back in some shape or manner…and will use excessive force to see that it doesn’t happen again.  I mean really, what do you do to someone who keeps stabbing at you?  You put them the fuck down so they STOP.  Phsycially, verbally, legally, illegally, whatever, you END that shit.

So yeah, I really think some people out there need to realize if theydo not ever want to be in a position where THEY are paranoid and worried and not sleeping and in fear and distress…they shouldn’t put OTHER people there.

Idiots.  I swear to god, the word is full of fucking morons.

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Comments
  1. rootietoot says:

    Let me guess,rrrrradical feminists vs someone with the different opinion? You never said it was rrrradical feminists but that’s the most immature, vitriolic and spite filled group of people I’ve ever encountered. bless their hearts, they can’t be very happy or content and I pity them. From a very long distance as they tend to spit.

    I want to have a support group “People Rrrrrradicalfeminists Have Spit On” and serve drinks and chips and we can sit around and laugh. It would be healing.

  2. Roy Kay says:

    Politics “the organization of hatreds” NEVER stops. What’s fascinating is that the hatingest of all are the ones who rail against “hate speech”, which is their term for speech they don’t like and doesn’t fit their agenda.

  3. So, I was over looking and Joan’s blog and it seems some person, a person I do not even know, is being lied about, threatened, outed, and otherwise wolf-packed by other people on line because, well, she has opinions different from those people.

    That’s the story, anyway… but as with Amanda Knox, have yet to see any evidence. Got a link to this mythical wolf pack of evilll trannies? Because really, I’ve looked everywhere and can’t find shit.

    I answered the accusations about me, anyway, since my all my attempts to reply to the charges on Joan’s blog were deleted:

    http://daisysdeadair.blogspot.com/2011/03/your-friday-blogdonia-soap-opera.html

    • Ren says:

      Daisy- I don’t have a horse in this race, I merely feel that if people ARE doing this shit, its flat out wrong. I’m not pissed at you or anyone else.

  4. […] scary black woman.  I mean, how come no one is accusing me of being emotionally duped into loving Renegade Evolution now, and agreeing with her about some things, when I used to talk such vehement shit about her?  […]

  5. joankelly6000 says:

    Daisy, not all of your replies were deleted, but it’s true that a lot were not published, but I would like it known here as everywhere else too: I don’t think Daisy’s the KKK and I definitely don’t want anyone who has been or is still friends with both of us to feel like they have to pick a side. OR, worse, to feel like they have to keep quiet if they agree with Daisy, in order to not-offend me or not-incure my wrath.

    I see things how I see them. I believe there is room for people (Daisy and/or everyone else) to see it differently without them being assholes or wrong. I’m okay with everyone having their opinions, regardless of whether I’m personally willing to publish certain of those opinions on my own blog and why.

    I am grateful to you, Ren, for publishing this post (which I did not read as being actually about Daisy or anything Daisy’s said or done at all, but about the people who have been spitefully careless at best, and intentionally harmful at worst, towards Margie by spreading personal information about her online). I know you know what it’s like to have been there, and as with a post a little while back that you wrote about respecting separatists’ right to be separatists if they feel like it, I appreciate that you say what you believe in, in this case too (the wrongness of outing people online), independent of whether you share much political or personal ground at all with the people you are choosing to stand with. I love you for that. (Hency my mushy email last night, ha.)

    • Ren says:

      nah, this post isn’t about Daisy…I dig daisy like I dig biscuits and gravy. I just don’t like people being threatened and outed and stuff.

  6. polly says:

    Hi Ren, Polly here. I know I haven’t commented before, but I hope you will understand why I want to comment on this to set the record straight.

    I mentioned publicly what university Margaret Jamison went to. Because I am sick of her talking about class without mentioning her own class privilege. I don’t see how exactly that information is ‘outing’ or threatening to out anyone. And to prove it, I’m going to tell you I I went to Manchester Metropolitan University. Can anyone now identify me from that? If you look around the net you can see what subject I studied.

    MOREOVER, this information was also mentioned by Margaret’s own girlfriend on AROOO. Which I can prove vie google cache (link up next so this comment doesn’t get spammed). So it was NOT secret. And not anything Margaret’s nearest and dearest hasn’t let slip – along with a lot of other potentially identifying information about Margaret and others.

    None of this is a campaign to ‘out’ Margaret Jamison.

    I know Margaret Jamison’s real name, and I know what university she went to, because I saw it on a publicly available and publicly linked facebook profile (not Margaret Jamison’s own page, as has been incorrectly stated elsewhere). It was pretty easy to work out who she was because the person had very few friends, all of whom hung around Arooo. And it wasn’t exactly rocket science to work out which one was Margaret Jamison.

    I contacted the person in question, and pointed out that if I could do that, anyone could do that. So she fixed it. Margaret should be thanking me (I won’t hold my breath).

    I have no intention of “outing” Margaret Jamison, and neither has anyone else as far as I know, and neither has anyone threatened to do so.

    If we wanted to do that, I think it would have happened by now, don’t you?

  7. polly says:

    Google cache….

    http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:pHmLPypGvdkJ:aroomofourown.wordpress.com/2011/01/18/favoritism/+arooo+margaret+jamison+stanford&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&source=www.google.co.uk

    As a wise woman just pointed out, if you want to keep your ID secret don’t go on facebook, especially under your real name. Cos it’s not in ANY way secure.

    I hope we can put this pack of lies to bed now.

  8. polly says:

    The same person by the way has pointed out that she thinks someone ACCIDENTALLY used Margaret’s real first name in a comment on her blog – because that was what the commenter was used to calling Margaret – pure slip of the keyboard. The comment was immediately deleted when it was spotted. So no – that wasn’t an attempt to ‘out’ Margaret either.

    Margaret’s girlfriend did EXACTLY the same with someone else on Arooo by the way – ie used her real first name. That person’s name begins with G. (hope that’s not outing her). She is also identifiable on facebook. Just sayin’.

    But you know why let the truth get in the way of a good story eh?

    The whole thing is seven shades of ludicrous. If anyone wanted to out Margaret they’d just publish her name!

    • Ren says:

      polly, truth is, i’ve not read any of the latest round of bs-ery…I read Joan’s blog. If NO ONE is being outted or threatened, well, then my post stands as a from personal experience on the matter opinion of the tactic. I had no idea who was invovled with what, or who, or how, or why….I just firmly beleive doing anything like what Joan mentioned to anyone is pretty fuckin’ rotten. If such things were not done by you or others, then my post Does Not Apply To You.

      But having been a person who this sorta shit HAS happened to, believe me when I tell you this: It Fuckin’ Sucks Rotten Eggs in Hell…and shouldn’t happen to anyone.

  9. polly says:

    Thanks for the reply Ren. And you don’t strike as the type who would wilfully endanger someone either, which is why I’m posting here (not that plenty of people who hate me don’t have my IP address already I’m sure).

    There are people in the world I would happily string up. But none of them are bloggers, even if they’ve lied about me – not saying you have, you believed what was said because you had no reason not to. And Margaret Jamison’s personal info is safe with me – I can’t vouch for the rest of the world of course.

    But I’m fairly sure it IS me and A.N. other(s) who are being referred to as the supposed outers. So no, there is no wolf pack. Like I said egg to the tune of whole omelettes on a few faces, but I won’t hold my breath for an apology.

    • Ren says:

      well, its one of those things I have a gut reaction to; having been on the receiving end of it previously in life. I don’t know the details, I don’t particularly WANT to know the details.

      The Internet is a strange place, people forget the thing on the other side of the ideas, stances, words and opinons they disagee with is also…a person. All around on all sides that happens, esp. when heated issues are whats on the table. I think it would do everyone good to step back and try and remember that shit. God, Goddess and all the Little Dieties know I’ve been guilty of forgetting that myself on numerous occasions.

      You can hate a persons views, hell, even hate the person…but they are still a person. I wish more folk would remember that shit.

    • Ren says:

      oh, and if i held my breath for apologies from every freakin’ meatsack that truly owed me one, I’d be a corpse, so yeah, I wouldn’t advise it.

  10. polly says:

    Yep I agree. It isn’t like we haven’t had our differences – but I respect a lot of what you say.

    And I do pick people up on their own hypocrisy – not to mention outright provable lies – and I’m going to keep on doing it, it’s perfectly legitimate. That doesn’t equate to “threatening” them, but I fancy that it’s a lot easier to try and distract attention by attacking someone with a load of made up bullshit when they score a direct hit, than admit you’re a hypocrite.

  11. joankelly6000 says:

    I actually did apologize to Daisy at her blog (but understandably she is not publishing my comment there) when Kitty said the Stanford information had already been public at AROOO. I had been under the opposite impression for good reason, but if I was wrong, then I was wrong. I also apologized because I wanted to make clear that Daisy was not trying to use Margie’s real name in her still-unwelcome-on-that-thread-because-they-were-trans-advocate-comments-instead-of-on-topic comments. Kitty had thought that’s why I wasn’t publishing some of Daisy’s comments.

    Polly, if it was an accident when I saw someone use Margie’s real name at Val’s, and if it was in fact deleted immediately, then I apologize for getting upset at all of you for that. I know you know that Margie gets death threats – you’ve commented about it at my place and others, about it being wrong, even during/while you’ve been on the outs with Margie.

    I did not think that you and the Val crowd were trying to get Margie killed – I thought the real-name usage had been inexcusable in its carelessness at best, because I don’t think it’s that hard to track down someone with a non-common first name and IP addresses, etc. I know it’s not hard for ANY of us to be found, if someone really wanted to, if we’re online at all. I know fuck-all about the FaceBook thing – I thought you were all insinuating that Margie was linked to MY Facebook page because I don’t know anyone but me who uses her full legal name publicly in blog land and is friends with Margie.

    CONSIDERING the lack of trust, the fact that I did not know that Margie’s real name had been swiftly removed, I only know that I saw it once at Val’s and it greatly upset me, and considering that I don’t believe transgendered males and other males who threaten Margie are joking or “just talking,” it may have been mistaken on my end if everything you say is true, but I don’t think it was a leap of hysteria for me to think it’s not cool for people to use someone’s real name on their public blogs when they know that person is under constant threats, just because a big blog war happened. There are things I know about people who I am no longer on good terms with. People who say things that arent’ true about me, and/or who insult me. I would never use private info about them to hurt them, regardless. I *thought* that’s what had gone on at Val’s. So much has gone on and been said that I suffer a severe lack of faith in Val’s intentions. She’s your friend; you experience her differently; I respect that.

    But I say again – I’m sorry if I was mistaken about the intent and the extent to which Margie’s name was publicly posted at Val’s place, but since I *know* people are and have been saying things about me that aren’t true, how the hell am I supposed to just go “oh well okay then, I can trust that THIS particular thing is true out of all the others?”

    Whether you or Daisy accept or even acknowledge my apology for getting it wrong, if I did get it wrong, that’s your prerogative. Yes, as someone who loves Margie, I am pretty tired of people targeting her simply because she says things they don’t like. And yes, if any of the transgendered males who threaten her, or other males who threaten her, tried to use info gleaned from these blog wars to get at her and hurt her, I would be pissed at the carelessness, but I would reserve my murderous rages for those who tried to get at her and harm her.

    That is how I am with all of my friends and family by the way, it’s not exclusive to Margaret Jamison, despite the apparent widespread belief that I have singled her out for special love and devotion and that she’s *unworthy* of it. Anyone who thinks that is wrong on ALL counts. I love the people I love because they are lovable, and are loving to me. People who are only my friends so long as I side against Margie when my conscience actually agrees with her – well, I’m sad to see them go sometimes, but such is life.

    Ren, I thank you still for this post, I think it’s fair and generous of you that you let your space be a place where everybody can asay their part, I know that for everyone, there are people we trust and agree with and people we don’t. Some of us had really friendly connections for a while, and I’m not ashamed to say that I’m still sad to see those go. But if we’re all sticking to our principles, and they are at odds, then that’s that.

  12. polly says:

    I don’t want to have this fight at Ren’s, since it’s not really her fault in any way, shape or form that she believed something she had no reason to disbelieve, and she has already very generously published my reply when I’m not a regular commenter here. I’ve also blathered on at war and peace length elsewhere on a thread that I’m sure is already getting plenty of hits.

    So I’ll stiick to saying I’d be more convinced of the sincerity of your apology Joan, if you publiished a FULL AND FRANK correction in the same place as you already made all the – in my opinion – defamatory remarks. Your blog. Till then I reserve the right to keep my opinions exactly as they are.

    And the fact that you were perfectly happy to leap to the conclusion that evil lesbians were trying to ‘out’ Margie when if we wanted to out her we could just have gone to any of the many people who hate her and told them her real name speaks for itself in my opinion.

    Not forgiven. Not forgotten. End of.

  13. polly says:

    And you don’t have to question whether you were wrong or not, I just proved it.

  14. I actually did apologize to Daisy at her blog (but understandably she is not publishing my comment there)

    More lies. No apology or comment from Joan at all has been entered on my blog. Zip. This is another lie.

    Nothing is in moderation right now.

  15. Ren says:

    ugh. I like Joan, I like Daisy, Polly seems okay to me….

    I wonder if everyone could take a minute to chill? I know Joan has a lot of RL shit in the going onr right now, maybe give her some time to write? And Daisy, I know from blogland experience sometimes comments show up late….they do really, maybe it just hasn’t arrived yet? Y’all, I KNOW what it feels like to be accused of shit I never did and lied about and painted with a brush that is totally the wrong color….it SUCKS, but sometimes, given time, the bad of it comes out in the wash and things get rectified.

  16. I’m torn. I don’t approve of putting any info out about someone who doesn’t want it out there, even if it’s not identifying. And I’m not sure why that info is needed — the repetition of “transgendered males” in this very comment section is making me ill enough that I’m sure I’d react to many of both Margie’s and Joan’s comments with distaste to say the least without knowing where or whether anyone went to college, served in the military, and/or danced naked with monkeys on their heads.

    It’s possible to say really nasty, angry stuff about someone who says something vile — like endlessly defending her majikal mystikal right to misgender other women over and over — without bringing her real life into it. I’d recommend Daisy just do that. 🙂

  17. Fierce, I didn’t bring anyone’s real life into anything. My comment wasn’t even approved in the first place. Phantoms are being chased.

  18. Fair enough, Daisy. But I did see a comment of yours over there to the effect of “If I find out you’re in the military I will gloat and talk about it,” and that I wasn’t comfortable with. I’m on your side if I’m on any side here — the endless defense of “I can call trans women nasty names if I want to! Daisy might get me hurt!” from your enemies in this fight flat out SICKENS me and has ruined my day.

    I just think that you seem fixated, for the moment, on little factoids about Margie and I’m not sure I see why. From the posts of hers I’ve read, she says some obviously vile things, and I don’t like her at all.

    It’s just that I’m not sure why knowing if she went through basic training or has paper from an Ivy League would make me more (or less) convinced of this.

  19. polly says:

    Hi Ren,

    As I said I apologise for taking the fight to your blog, and I’ve tried to avoid doing it any more than is necessary – but I hope you understand why I wanted to set the record straight. I don’t apologise for having the fight, but I’m sorry if you’ve got caught up in the middle of it, and to reiterate, I don’t blame you for believing something you had no reason to disbelieve.

  20. polly says:

    Except to say that Fierce awakening – Daisy wasn’t putting information out there, that’s the point. If you go to the link I provided, the information had already been mentioned by Margaret Jamison’s partner on a blog that Margaret Jamison was posting on at the time.

  21. Polly and Daisy,

    Okay, yeah, I missed that. In that case, unless Margie didn’t realize the info was already out there, it seems pretty dramaqueenish to take such deep offense. Still, sometimes on the ‘Net you don’t want something to be widely known and someone slips up and says it, and before you can do damage control it’s all over the place. I have friends who know me both online and IRL and because they are more open than I am about their personal info, think nothing of mentioning things I’d rather keep under wraps. I know nothing on the ‘Net’s truly hidden and I’m fully prepared for the wrong people to get a hold of info I’d rather most people not know… but it still bugs me when that happens. If someone I don’t like took that info and ran with it, yeah, I’d probably be upset… and maybe even wig out in a public and ugly way about it, as it seems Margie and Joan are here. That’s the only point I’m making.

    I like Daisy a lot and I admire you for posting here and being civil and respectful, given the wide gulf of difference in opinion between many of us and you. I’m not trying to harp. I’m just saying that I see Ren’s point (if I understand it right, and I hope I do) in finding the info thing distasteful.

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