Random question of the day…

Posted: June 8, 2010 in Humans

I had another post, the ironically titled “it’s not my fault that I’m better than you” planned for today- but it will have to wait until a little later.

I was over and Gin’s and ran across this story:  Fl man kills 4 women, does not target men….

And it got me thinking…

I can, off the top of my head, think of one school shooting ever that involved a woman- Brenda Ann Spencer circa 1979.  Compared to oh, this.  There is one other female on that list.  One.

So it is not a matter of “women never do this sort of thing”; physical violence, gang violence, domestic violence, murder….but they do it a hell of a lot less. 

So the question then comes….

ARE men MORE violent than women?

OR

IS violence from males more tolerated, accepted, and even encourgaged (and less often punished or rewarded?)

Discuss at will.  I tend to lean towards theory two myself.

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Comments
  1. ginmar says:

    Men are rewarded for this kind of thing. Boys will be boys, you know—snips and snails nad puppy dog tails. The minute the cord’s cut, some dude is trying to get the baby to catch a football. The flip side is that they get punished for not obeying male standards. Unlike women, though, who get fucked over at every turn—damned if you do, damned if you don’t obey the contradictory rules—-men get lavishly rewarded.

    • Ren says:

      I am rather with you on this one. I know my upbringing was different- in so much that both myself and my brother were allowed/encouraged to be athletic (ironically enough, I was the jock, he was the brain), and in the case of school yard fights or bullies or whatever, BOTH of us were encouraged to Stand Up for Ourselves- whether that meant telling a teacher or throwing a punch. And in our house, that was the way it was, but outside it, I certainly took more shit for it than he did (then again I did it a lot more often too).

      I also know my family was a rarity in that aspect. Most gals I know were NEVER encouraged or allowed to defend or stand up for themselves physically, and were often not allowed to play sports or do physical things at all because it was unfeminine.

      But it is something I have noted and observed for a long time; boys get into a fight, and the first thing often asked of them is “did you kick so and so’s ass?”, and if the answer is yes, well, good on them. IF, IF a girl gets into a fight, win or lose, regardless often of the reason, well, shame on her.

      • rootietoot says:

        “Most gals I know were NEVER encouraged or allowed to defend or stand up for themselves physically, and were often not allowed to play sports or do physical things at all because it was unfeminine. ”

        That would be me, until I turned 9 and Dad realized it was either teach me how to use the guns and power tools or let me kill myself with them when he wasn’t around. I still was never encouraged to do the sports or anything really active tho.

    • Beste says:

      I guess Gerardo Regalado’s lavish reward must of been the bullet he put in his own brain.

  2. Definitely theory 2.

    But try explaining that to anyone not already having a clue and see how far you get – been there, done that, got the dents in the wall from where my head kept impacting…

    Plus, men are taught by society not to express emotions, except for anger and lust, meaning that when bad shit happens men are far more likely to go the violent ragey route because that’s the only vocabulary they have.

    It sucks being a man in this world. The trouble is, it’s even worse being a woman!

  3. DebSens says:

    hmmmmm maybe a com ination of both with extra emphasis on 2…it does seem all over the world men have a tendency for violence more so then women but at the same time men are defently awarded for violence and are taught to supress their emotions and that emotions are for girls…which can have bad results.

  4. joankelly6000 says:

    I don’t know if men are biologically more prone to violence or not. I do know that the spineless fucks who are violent and claim that they lashed out only because it was so hard to feel how they were feeling can suck my dick. Men who do the things that you cite above do so because they feel entitled to it. They *are* entitled to it.

    And I believe this as well: if men thought that they would face retaliatory violence from any women they attacked, they would attack quite a bit less. Men who beat their wives, for instance, may say they can’t control their anger and that’s why the beatings happen, but you’ll notice them having complete control of themselves when faced with a dude who could and would kick their asses. I wish there were a different word than this, what with me loving the thing it means when it’s not being used negatively, but there’s nothing else that conveys precisely how I feel: men are violent because they’re fucking pussies.

    I realize that’s not scientific, nor in line with either of the options you presented, but this is me discussing at will, ha.

  5. Ren says:

    Joan:

    “I do know that the spineless fucks who are violent and claim that they lashed out only because it was so hard to feel how they were feeling can suck my dick. ”

    Then I am afraid you need to present that dick, and I don’t go that way. I have, ahem a history of some violence in my youth and all, and I can say part of that was driven by the fact that LITERALLY, it was hard to feel what I was feeling, and even a shit ton harder to express it, and even HARDER to get anyone to listen. I think THAT is a travesty a whole lot of young people run head long into, male and female alike, and it is ignored. One can only bang their head against a wall sayng “FFS, LISTEN” and have no one listen before they get hostile about it.

    • joankelly6000 says:

      Well that dick’s imaginary so I think we’re safe.

      And I think I know what you’re saying – I have also had experiences like that in my youth. Are you saying though that what you did is the same thing as being a habitual adult abuser in abusive relationships who blames their abusiveness on the abused? It doesn’t sound to me like your youth, or mine, are the same thing as men going on shooting rampages or beating/raping/murdering women – both familiar and strangers – because they’re women.

      It’s not something I excuse in myself or anyone else, it just is different to me – being a kid who is experiencing powerlessness in a harmful way (speaking for myself here) and then taking that powerlessness out on someone/thing that has even less power than you do, versus being an adult who abuses other adults or kids, and especially specifically targeting a group of people because of them belonging to that group.

      Essentially what I’m saying is – girls also are violated and trapped by girl-ness in ways that produce rage, and so I personally just don’t accept that the reason men are more violent towards women in the ways that men are, is because growing up male is like being forced to be a pressure cooker that has no choice but to blow at some point(s). If that were the explanation, there should be at LEAST equal numbers of female people going on rampages and beating husbands.

      • Ren says:

        Joan:

        I don’t get men who beat around their wives/girlfriends/kids…esp consistantly. That seems like bullying behavior to me. I also do not get people (men or women) who downgrade/browbeat/verbally beat down their kids or partners (also seems like bullying).

        I can, however, to a huge degree, Get People (male or female) who are on the recieving end of that shit and go nuclear due to it- be it in the form of a school shooting or a suicide.

        And that sort of blow up- well, it seems to me violence upon others is more often done by males, and violence upon the self is more often done by females- I wonder if that is genetically hardwired via the differences of biological sex or if it is more heavily influenced by the way males and females are treated differently in society. That’s the thing that fascinates me.

        • joankelly6000 says:

          Well, this won’t help illuminate anything, but re: going nuclear after bullying – I had the desire for a little while in high school to blow myself up in one of my classes (this was in 1984 so not a Columbine copycat, ha). So again, I don’t know what I think about male/female violence in terms of its origins. Do agree though that *mostly* it seems like men direct outward and women direct inward. I did both.

  6. rootietoot says:

    it’s a little of both, but mostly nurture, imo. Of my 4 boys, only 1 is really active/prone to blowing things up, etc. Since I can’t see how we may have raised him with a different set of standards than the other 3, i think his nature has a big part in that. As for the actual violence, tho…none of them are like that (except that third one, and only when he’s likkered up and someone else picks the fight). My question is how can you take 2 people who were raised in an awful, abusive manner, and 1 grows up just as abusive and the other doesn’t, likewiase 2 ppl raised in a loving household, 1 grows up abusive and the other doesn’t…I think that’s a bit of nature over nurture, BUT nurture is definitely the stronger factor overall.

    • Ren says:

      wrt to violent or hostile behavior, I think nature does play a roll, but I do not think that is a male exclusive thing though. I mean, okay, my bro and I were raised almost exactly the same. Same rules, same expectations, same all that…he is mellow as hell and has been in maybe ONE physical altercation in his life- ever and HATES confrontation. Then there is me LOL. So yeah, I think we are wired different…but I am the female and the more hostile one.

  7. Jay says:

    It’s both. I put more weight on #1 than most other feminists do, though – the idea of human beings as blank slates whose habits, strengths, and/or weaknesses are solely formed by environmental conditioning is completely out-of-step with reality.

  8. Gaina says:

    I’d veer towards b) myself too, as I think society is particularly harsh on women who express what are stereotypically seen as Male traits. Their punishment seems less to do with what they’ve actually done and more about them having the audacity to upset societies illogical stereotypes of them with such behaviour.

    I think women are definitely more convoluted in their violence. For myself, I can definitely conjure up more brutal and protracted ways to dispatch people than my male friends can **LOL**. I also think women are possibly more selective about the circumstances under which they commit violence, but then again this could be an erroneous assumption on my part because of the way men who commit violent acts are portrayed and the facts about a case that are sometimes omitted by the media.

  9. Eli says:

    I think it’s a combination of different things.

    I don’t think women as a whole are substantially less violent than men as a whole; I think women tend to be violent by different means so it’s often not perceived as such (emotional violence, verbal violence, etc).

    I also think that as a rule, people are only violent in situations where they likely can get away with it; so physically stronger men may simply have more opportunities for physical violence, whereas violence towards children is more often perpetrated by women than men, etc. Since men are on average physically stronger, this may skew the statistics towards more male violence.

    Nurture is probably very important too, but I think it’s not so much that boys are rewarded for being violent as that they are severely punished for being non-violent or being ineffective at using violence (no sympathy for the loser of a fight). Our culture strongly links masculinity with the ability to deploy violence (to be tough). To steal a phrase, I think society is particularly harsh on men who express what are stereotypically seen as female traits (ie sissies).

  10. Lisa KS says:

    I once wrote a blog post about neonaticide, which is one of the very few violent crimes that is overwhelmingly committed by women. This is striking that thought train up again.

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