Liar Liar…

Posted: July 16, 2011 in Assholes, Morons, Rants, WTF???

So, the shit is still on going at Hugo’s, and while there is some deplorable shit all around, I am still just stunned that so many folk who are supporting the decision made by Jill and Hugo are plain out refusing to address/ignoring/ making no mention of the fact that, oh, look, huge fucking lie right there.  Deflect, Avoid, Ignore, Straw a flyin’, so on so forth, but humm, no real talk about the lying, except to defend it as ‘the upright thing to do’…

Uh, WTF?

See, I dunno how the rest of the world came up, but I was raised in a manner that dictated lying was wrong, and there was sure as shit the difference between a little white lie and a freakin’ whopper of a lie.  Telling yer friend nah, her ass don’t look fat in that to spare her feelings?  Okay, acceptable.  Not tellin’ some dude he might not be the father of the child he believes to be his?  Not fuckin’ okay.  BIG freakin’ difference there.  There are big important lies and little tiny lies and yep, sure enough, there is a difference. Tellin’ someone you love their new haircut when ya actually hate it is really not some huge impacting thing.  Tellin’ the same friend you got no idea what happened to her car when yer the one who actually stole it?  Uhhh…

And it is absolutely stunning me how many people are just fine and dandy a-ok with this kinda lie.  Floored and all that shit.  I’ll even admit that I kinda gotta a rep amid my friends for being brutally honest even when, er, my honesty is not actually wanted or appreciated…but I really don’t like lyin’.  (yeah, I am the one who will actually say, yes, yer ass looks fat in that- but if its the truth, its the truth- and if people actually care, well, then they deserve to know- I figure if they didn’t wanna know they wouldn’t ask!)  So yeah, this kinda huge epic lie being seen as okay- even if it may be in some manner….merciful…stuns me.  If folk will lie about shit like that, what else are they just totally comfortable lying about?  I mean folk who will lie about something that serious, well, I kinda figure they might also lie about if they have STD’s or not, drug habits, jobs, criminal records, and pretty much any and every other thing a potential Significant Other might wanna know and find relevant before agreeing to be in a relationship with ‘em.

And yep, sure enough, the fact that feminists are supporting this  grimly amuses me.  If someone utterly disregarded a woman’s consent or choice like this- they’d be ready to hang some fuckers.  But hey, Ted’s a dude, right, so no harm no foul.  So much for freakin’ equality, right?  These are also the same folk who say if a man lies to a woman about anything serious that pertains to him (see the std, criminal record, so on, above) well then, heck, if he even sleeps with a woman with those lies in place, some of ‘em will call it rape because she might not have consented to sex with him if she knew the truth…I guess once again, Ted, who is a dude, don’t get the same consideration.

Goddamn this shit is STILL sickening me and pissing me right the hell off.  It takes a lot to truly disgust me- but this has done it!

Comments
  1. anon says:

    i read Hugo’s piece over at Good Men Project, and my feelings are more about Hugo than virtual Jill.

    Really, we don’t know much about virtual Jill or virtual Ted apart from what Hugo tells us to assume, and they are not participating in the “conversation”, so they are just Hugo strawmen.

    What I find grimly amusing, or confirming, is how Hugo, days later, still has not addressed HIS role in this deception then or even 14 years and his reform from alcoholism later.

    I suspect that not only did you and I grow up being told lying is wrong, but also being told that participating in lies, and frauds, and deceptions, and cons is wrong as well.

    I could understand Hugo, 14 years later, saying this is what I did and it was wrong, but that’s not what he does. He says, this is what I did 14 years ago, and now, reformed and rehabilitated as I am, I am really proud of my decision then. And the people upset with me aren’t good men, or likely good fathers, they are whining MRAs upset about sperm.

    My daughters were taken from me by a mother and a court system that colluded. Which is to say, I got the biased, stereotypical, no one would fault a judge for giving it to me, standard 20/80 split, think of the children, tender years doctrine even though I had asked for a 50/50 split. And still, the mother does everything she can to keep me from the kids even at that. Including, and I am not exaggerating, blackmail: pay me this or you won’t see the kids, and I will tell them you didn’t want to see them. And truly, I have emails filled with this stuff.

    So oddly, I completely understand all the joy and responsibilities that non-biological fathers like virtual Ted have. I completely believe they can be fathers, and are fathers, and worse, that later on in years, the kids will think first of them as their fathers. And so I am saddened, depressed, and very upset when I hear my kids refer to the mother’s husband as dad. But why not? He sees them far more often, interacts with them far more often than I do. And I just want to curl up and die.

    But no one wants to hear my story about that — to feminists, I am just another whining MRA. To Hugo, I donated a teaspoon of sperm, and that should be the end of that. Feminists tell me that false allegations of rape are not as bad as rape, that paternity fraud is not as bad as rape, hell, probably that murder is not as bad as rape. I am sure having my kids taken away and having society dissolve me entirely is not as bad as rape. I am just another whining MRA, trying to keep the women down.

    But Hugo.

    On one of the threads a commenter named dungone, IIRC, had a very interesting comment. It’s acts like Hugo’s that created and perpetuate “the patriarchy.” Why would men want to control women’s sexuality, if not for acts like Hugo’s and virtual Jill’s? So ironic, or telling, or something, that Defender of Women Hugo, Good Man Hugo actively participates in the con, fraud, deception of another person, and is able to either rationalize his acts at the time, and then 14 years later and no longer an addict, can still manage to rationalize his decisions then.

    And not see his behavior then as irresponsible, or understand that his inability to see that now is evidence of psychopathy. Google psychopathy and symptoms of psychopathy, and compare with Hugo’s admitted behaviors over the years….

    It’s pretty amazing that feminists crowd around this guy.

    Anyway, sorry for the rant.

    • Ren says:

      Anon:

      The situation with your children is unfortunate, and honestly, I think that sort of thing happens all too often. I happen to live in a state where that sort of thing is REALLY changing, and well, its about time.

      wrt Hugo- I like hugo, but I don’t agree with his view on this at all.

    • Its feminism that has changed. Just sayin.

      I come from the feminism that was never impressed with men, no matter what they do. And you can clearly see that Third Wave teenyboppers crowding around Hugo and gushing over him, are not those feminists. I am not sure what happened to that kind of feminism… but it isn’t the kind you have recently become accustomed to, let me just say that.

      And FTR I don’t think ‘recovery’ has as much to do with the timing of the post as the fact that Hugo is now a father and feels that he is now entitled to comment on what fatherhood ‘means’. I like Hugo, but his sense of self-importance is grating, and the people he attracts to his blog often annoy me. Okay, usually annoy me.

  2. Yeah, feminism is getting weird. I think it is entirely likely the Second Wave really IS dead and buried and all that theory has been replaced with “go grrls!” and everything is supposed to be whittled down to that handy-dandy slogan… and if it can’t be, do it anyway.

    Perhaps I am *not* one any more; it has occurred to me several times recently that I don’t GET what is going on: Feminists defend lying to Ted, feminists ban other feminists from their blogs and let asshole dudes hold forth on how women piss em off, feminists defend murdering mommy Casey Anthony … and that last fact has shocked me as much as this whole fiasco has shocked you. I can hardly believe the horseshit I’ve been reading. It makes me really, really, sick and makes me think, gee, if there was a way to be sure we could sterilize all the Casey-defenders, I might go for it. Feminists blame her parents for the fact that she kills her kid… WTF? I wish my (nonexistent middle class) parents would support MY worthless ass while I party and don’t work and leave my kid with them… lots of us were subjected to (considerably more) abuse and DID NOT kill our little girls. You know? Why do they excuse this sorry assed bitch? When did feminism = women exempt from moral judgments? Why do these Casey-defending feminists burble that there was “no evidence” (when of course there was a boatload of evidence and anyone who says otherwise is a goddamned idiot who did not watch the trial and should therefore not comment on it and show themselves to be stupid asswipes)?

    She will be released tonight (or tomorrow, I am banking on early morning hours).. Let’s hope we have one of them paparazzi-races, like the one that went after Princess Diana, and lets hope it ends up more or less the same.

    You dumbass feminist defenders of Casey forgot something… as Atticus Finch reminded us, sometimes prisons are SAFE and people are BETTER OFF INSIDE. But I guess when she is dead, you will blame us, rather than yourselves for cheering her release, you dumb fucks.

    Thanks for letting me vent, Ren.

    And yeah, this is fucked up too. I commented on the other thread. I sincerely hope the child of Jill and Ted is not devastated when he is older and gets his blood type taken and it doesn’t match up with dad’s. That is fucked up, just so fucked up.

    Why don’t people care about *the kids* any more?

    • Ren says:

      Daisy-

      IMHo, a lot of it is class based shit, for real. I think a lot of the shiny feminists of the now- well, they are actually pretty dang privileged and it shows in ALL kinds of ways. They ID with Anthony for OBVIOUS reasons…and aren’t bitter old crackers like us LOL.

  3. Harold says:

    Hi Ren, I not angry about this because I often feel that MRA and Feminist sites operate in the following type of vacuum…

    MRAs: Infinite understanding for men, nothing but judgment against women
    FEMINISTS: Infinite understanding for women, nothing but judgment against men

    Given that situation all of the twisting and turning seems logical for each side. I actually do believe that feminists have more non-trivial issues than MRAs; however, many MRAs and Feminists posters seem to be only interested in justice instead of mercy and understanding for the other side.

    Next I think that you are in all likelihood more honest than me despite the fact, if possible, I want to follow Jesus teachings (I do not as of yet got the selflessness, courage, and fortitude to do so).
    For example, I do have one situation myself that I feel guilty about, not like Hugo’s, but I do not know how to address it or at least have the courage to do right now.

    I think I will try to follow your lead and to be more honest myself in every situation,

    Thanks for reading,

    Harold

    • Ren says:

      Harold- well, hopefully you got more tact than me- I try to be honest, but I am kinda…overly blunt- which ain’t so great either often.

      and I think WRT to MANY feminists (not all) and MANY MRA’s (not all), well, they are extremists, and most folk out there in the world fall somewhere in between.

  4. Harold says:

    Ren types:

    and I think WRT to MANY feminists (not all) and MANY MRA’s (not all), well, they are extremists, and most folk out there in the world fall somewhere in between.

    You are correct of course, I just sometimes get caught in my own cynicism

  5. Observing Swine says:

    I was well disgusted by this, and just read his wrap up on it. I love the passive aggressive snipes peeping through the magnanimity act. Pretend, evade, pretend. Yet more transparent posturing, another gleam of the Schwyzer quality shines through. I have to laugh that he takes heart in who is friends are
    when you consider the inanities advanced from his own tiny crowd of diehards, who are still mouthing against the “love is contignent upon biology” position instead of the “love involves openness and candour” one. The only highpoint in favour of Schwyzer a rhetorical effusion from his pal figleaf.

    I read somewhere that Schwyzer’s repentant. He’s not reprentant, he became too dysfunctional to continue with his past carrying on, that’s all. I’ve met a few like this. Any avowals that he is repentant read to me as a self regarding narrative he’s built for himself – whether he’s done good or done bad, I can’t shake the feeling
    it’s all the fucking Hugo Show… and a little self gratifying on some level for him.

    Go back to your Cal bubble Schwyzer and console yourself that you have a little cadre of loyalist ideological goons while most of the rest of the world see through you from many angles and would happily rip you a new one. Hell, I thought the guy was mildly slimey in his article, but now? Talk about sticking to the weight that’s dragging you down.

  6. anon says:

    I appreciate your response to me. Earlier today I was banned at Hugo’s for what I thought was a relatively innocuous dialog.

    I dislike the practice of many on the net, where a person is banned, and various posts from then on are never seen and other commenters are not told of the banning or the offense or given an opportunity to see the problematics posts. I just don’t think that’s fair except for the cases of spam, extreme hate speech, privacy issues, or calls to violence.

    So I posted the various comments, and Hugo’s response here: http://somerandomnotes.posterous.com/banned-at-hugo-schwyzers-blog

    I thought some of you may wish to see it, and I thank you for allowing me to barge on in and link to it here.

  7. PM says:

    Thanks, Ren. I don’t identify as a feminist because I don’t like “-isms”, but I’m much closer to that than an MRA or just a gender traditionalist. That said, I felt like I had wandered into bizzaro world when feminists were treating Jill’s deception like it was no big deal. It IS a big deal. Thanks for shooting from the hip – as a North-to-South transplant, I appreciate that quality :)

  8. rootietoot says:

    I think the thing that bothers me the most is the willingness to LIE, period. How do you keep a lie like that without cracking, especially to your spouse? And such a whopper of a lie, too. I couldn’t do it. I’ve always heard if you stick to the truth, you don’t have to keep your story straight. All the Good intentions and Well Meanings and whatever aren’t going to amount to much when the truth comes out. Never mind the psychological crap keeping a lie does to the person who’s hiding the truth. I’m trying to look at this aside from the heinousness of THAT particular lie…put it all together in one package and I have NO idea how someone can live with it.

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